Was reading today Abletts article in the paper and he even said sutty isn't a natural half and describes him as a running ball handler.

Agree on Sutcliffe, he might give one good moment in a game like the try like last week but he needs to be good and controlling for 80 mins which I just don't see in him.

Achurch was nothing in comparison to Ward or Ablett.

JJB did OK for a comeback and fair play to him just for coming back TBF because most of us thought he'd be retiring after that injury.

Said last week, we DESPERATLEY need McGuire back. Even those who heavily criticised him in the past must surely have seen that we need him.

Oh well at least we scored and avoided the zero

Will agree to disagree there. Leeds lost momentum very early there was a stat earlyish in 2nd half showing Wigan with twice the territory of Leeds. Leeds were only in it at half time due to Wigans poor attack. With the little ball and field position leeds had in first half they were always going to open up. Had leeds been cohesive in attack for a couple of plays in the first half they still couldn't have come away with the win due to the counts on the stats.

Errors and penalties are the reason that Wigan cut leeds open in both halves like a hot knife through butter. Put this way I wasn't thinking, if leeds can just be more cohesive in attack we'll take the win, I was thinking they're blowing out their backsides and need the ball!

That was very, very bad. Can't fault the effort in defence, but I don't think we won a ruck all night, constantly they left one or two players on the floor, weight of possession told with soft efforts for Gildarts and Gellings tries also.

On offense (I use that term loosely) we look like a team that's been figured out, Wigan were able to wrap the ball up and stop the ball really getting to our backs. Our Halves were awful, I know they're both young but I'd rather see them try and take control and maybe not put a great kick into the I goal than constantly having Zak or Kallum etc turning the ball over without even testing the opposition. If we are just trying to be unpredictable someone needs to remind the players that only works if you don't do it every time.

If I had to pick positives I'd say keinhorst put in a big stint, for 10-15 minutes either side of the half we looked better with Falloon on, he also showed some nice long passing. Achurch got through a big stint without getting injured. It also could have been a lot worse had wigans attack clicked and our defence not been pretty dogged for most of the game.

I've said it before and the lonely virgin can try mock it if that's all that brings him joy in life....but this team spent too long patting itself on the back for the achievements of 2015 and it's clearly showing. No fire in the bellies this year unlike 12 months ago.

The pluses first. Keinhorst, Falloon, Mullally. JJB.

The props did not make enough yards and tackled too high allowing Wigan to keep walking easy yards as they gained ground despite several tacklers ineffective efforts and we are losing the collision on attack too. Poor discipline and woefully tackling with Hardaker one of the worst and Achurch's and Handley's paperweight stuff not much better. Our half backs were not in the game on attack with Sutcliffe again looking out of his depth, Watkins outplayed by a young lad and Hall not at the races.

Opposition sides are wrapping Cuthbo's offloads up too easily making him and others force the pass and so lose possession.

Also we do not look fit or fast enough IMO which may account for some of our leg injuries. Finally we lacking game management, leadership and flair. Mac has his work cut out and we could do with a few easy games for our senior players to regain form.

I know we did a lot of defending but we don't look fit in my opinion and I'm really starting how much of an effect loosing kirkstall has actually had.

In addition, it's not often I'll criticise McDermott and his interchanges because he's paid to do the job and he's better qualified than me to make those calls, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why Achurch stayed on that pitch for so long, the bloke was dead on his feet, I've give him some stick over the last year but tonight for me anything he did wrong wasn't his fault he should have been changed, the amount of times sat behind those sticks tonight I saw Achurch on the floor blowing was ridiculous!

Don't forget SPOTY.

And the Kiwis.

Listen to Wiliam people, he once posted this nugget of great knowledge in July 2011....

"It's a tired, over-the-hill squad at Leeds that's been in decline for several seasons. The amount of indiscipline they are exhibiting is a reaction from a squad of players who were used to winning silverware and having things their own way but no longer are. They all know this, but it's easier to whine, chelp, niggle, get penalised, blame the ref, blame anyone or anything but themselves. They are no longer fit for the purpose.

The time for sentiment is over.

Reason must prevail instead.

This squad is finished as a competitive entity and there should be no further contract renewals for any of them.

It's time to move on."

....and he was completely right......that is if you ignore the 3 GF's, 2 CC's, 1 WCC and 1 LLS which included a treble that all occured after his bold claim with the same core to the team



Honestly, he's knowledgable

While Keinhorst and Jones-Buchanan were almost the only Leeds players to come out of the game with any credit - their combined effort for the Gelling try had to be seen to be believed.

Conceding that try and the fifth tackle options highlight how Leeds are a shambles at present.

Tvoc coming online just after William.....again....after they disappeared and reappeared at the same time....nudge nudge wink wink

Why the personal insults? anyone would think you were John Holmes they way you carry on

You are delusional.

Positives:
Keinhorst - proving his worth as a squad player. Not the most skillful but makes up for that with high workrate and good defence.
Falloon - we looked better going forward and it was obvious to see the difference a proper hooker makes.
JJB - his speed in both attack and defence will be useful
Effort was excellent in defence but not directed in the right way.
Also pleased we're still determined and seem able to throw the ball around. That will pay dividends later in the season when we regain some form.

Negatives:
Everything else.
McDermott was right, the Sky lot were praising Leeds defence when I thought it was awful. Poor kick chase combined with poor contact in the tackle meant Wigan made loads of easy metres and made numerous breaks through weak contact and quick play the balls. It was only pure effort and poor Wigan attack that kept us in it.
Whilst I've named JJB as a positive it was entirely his fault for Wigan's try from the tap, he came flying out of the line and got caught out by a simple dummy run that left a huge gap in our defence.
Our 5th tackle plays are still rubbish. We've never been good on the 5th tackle except for on Grand Final day but we're particularly bad at the moment.


I have utterly no idea what game Eddie Hemmings was watching when he praised Wigan's attack and Leeds defence, if any evidence were needed that he hasn't actually paid attention to what's going on in RL over the last 20 years then that was it. Time to go, Eddie.

I await you asking William the same question for this retort to another poster on a different thread

"You thick, Stupor League t"

.....come on Sal, ask him why the insults too?

Leave him be Sal.

It'll be the SSRIs he's on.

Strange to select their 5th (71st minute) last try to criticise, when the game was well and truly lost. Stranger still to be selective in highlighting mistakes from two of our best players who had run themselves into the ground, while excluding Hardaker's missed tackle in "their combined effort" for the same try or indeed some of the other missed tackles that led to most of the other tries.

I think your Hardaker obsession is getting a little boring and long in the tooth now....... It's interesting how you turn everything back to him, just give it up you're making yourself look a bit of a twit, maintain some dignity you made your point now let it ride Jesus.

It's funny you say that because as a Wiganer I'm disappointed that we didn't score 50 points as IMO Leeds were terrible for the full 80 minutes and were there for the taking big time and we missed the chance to give you a massive tonking

I think he was getting at the point you were hardly at full strength yourselves and had the very late withdrawal of one of your main attacking threats...you [iwere[/i there for the taking: the fact that the present Leeds team was incapable of taking advantage is an indictment of Leeds's poor form

What is interesting is that some folk are blind to Hardaker's defensive lapses. Are you wanting to pretend Hardaker didn't also miss his tackle for the same try that Keinhorst and JJB were being bagged for? After all some have claimed ZH was one of our best players.

No one is blind to his "defensive lapses".....just some of us whilst knowing he's the best defensive FB in the league also don't unrealistically expect him to make every single tackle and stop every single try that comes his way.

Same thing every time from the same two posters who bagged him before the start of last year, if he doesn't stop a try then they ALWAYS bring it up because of what was said in that thread over 12 months ago.

Many were/are previously blind to his attacking lapses which was the main point I made more than a year ago. Some have now seen my points were/ valid regarding his attacking limitations. I have often praised him for his good qualities but argued against the over hype that was bestowed on him.

If it is ok to point out mistakes and errors of others in the side why is Hardaker so precious that has errors go unrecorded. I never expect any player to be mistake free or make every tackle and I acknowledge that FB is a difficult position where you can be made to look foolish on occasions where you have to make 50:50 decisions. But against Wigan he made several missed tackles that cost us tries which on other days would have made. Hence I argued against those that thought him one of our best players.

I wish him well and hope he soon recovers his form but please don't expect me to refrain from posting an opinion just because I maybe in the minority.

Jones-Buchanan and Keinhorst simultaneously cross over and clear a path through a set defensive line from for a tap penalty restart. Why?

I'd like to see someone analyse that at Jon Wells' wall and it wouldn't be Hardaker.