After only 10 games (mostly at 2nd row) had you decided that Sinfield would lead us to several GF's in his later years?

Mcguire and Burrow were special though, both absolutley rapid and an ability to split even international defences with the ease that shawn Johnson can now, had Mcguire not had so many big injuries from 2010 onward I think he would have developed as Englands best half in a long time

What you need to remember though is that most halves are not ready at 19 or even 21, just look at the top halves in the NRL now and when they had there breakout year:
Thurston was 23, Reynolds was 23, Ben hunt was 24...
it can take a while to develop and imo a lack of reserve grade and impatiece is what stops SL from developing any World Class haves

as for Hardaker and Hall, just remember they both started last year poorly as well (probably due to internationals) but came good later

With two players off injured, Delaney strapped and struggling (as usual) and tiring conditions, of course he didn't get on.

Our coach wasn't impressed with our halves, and he said so pretty plainly. Very unusual for BMD to do that.
Lilley was not great . His passing was dreadful, his tackling was weak, he ran poorly without threat and apart from a good short kick for Keinhorst's try we had no kicking game from either half.
Thankfully the ref decided he was going to be the most important player tonight. A truly dreadful display, devoid of sympathy for the conditions and riddled with mistake after mistake. Game became a lottery thanks to Silverwood.

Agree with that DHM. I've been disappointed with Burrow so far this season. After McGuire's injury I've been waiting for him to step up at scrum half and lead but he's not doing. The poor last tackle plays are a symptom of that lack of direction and leadership at half back in my opinion.
Whilst I agree on Lilley's performance overall I thought we looked better with Lilley at 7 and Burrow at 9, both players seemed more at ease in those roles.

Agree on Silverwood too, some bizarre calls and decisions toward & against both sides. Probably helped stoke some of the frustrations that started arising in the 2nd half.

It was a typical bottom of the table clash and would not normally be shown on sky. Unfortunately it was and boy did the sky team try to spam it up.

But you did choose to pick on Lilley though! I fully agree that we are lacking at half back but IMO Lilley's positive contribution was far greater than that from Sutcliffe, Hall, Hardaker, Handley and Watkins and as by far the most junior player he should be given some allowances.

You missed a player out of your list, for some reason.

Out of the three of thought liley looked the best, at least he looked interested. The worst was burrow, and Sutty needs to do more I feel he went hiding and didn't want the responsibility.

Agree, Lilley looked much happier at 7 rather than at dummy half.
Silverwood just got so much plain wrong - for both teams.

End of day 2 points which we desperately needed.The performance was not great but the conditions were awful and Silverwood was as dire as both sides which contributed to the stink fest.not a game i will be looking to watch on repeat.

I picked out Lilley as he or, more correctly, his position, be that 7 or 9, is IMO the reason you are struggling. With Falloon & McGuire in you will be fine, but Lilley will never be good enough for either. I hope I'm wrong, we desperately need a WC HB for England. If you consider a few conversions & a grubber near the line more of a contribution than Sutcliffe's 80 minutes that's fine by me. The others were crap but they aren't key to the game (possible exception of Hardaker) over its entirety.

True, but I was trying to make new more balanced points knowing that as usual you had already jumped in with your critique.

Jesus Christ why is everyone picking on lilley, he is 19 for gods sake played less than a dozen super league games, and just picked up sky mom award, we only got back into the game when he went to 7 we looked awful with burrow there. Both burrow and maguire were not super stars at the same age like some are suggesting, they both had blinding pace but we're both 21 before they we first choice. At 19 Ben walker and Ryan Sheridan followed by Sinfield duneman combo were are first choice right up to 2004. Some people need to get a serious grip.

I do consider Lilley's overall contribution to be greater than Sutcliffe's over the 80 minutes. Apart from his try, which he took well, Sutcliffe did nothing of note. The reason we are struggling is that we have a serious injury list including some key players which in addition to losing our two most influential players at the end of last season is something of a handicap. At the end of the day we won the game on Lilley's kicking skills and coolness under pressure..

Sutcliffe has just returned from a long term injury and as a 'work in progress' bench player has to play in the pivotal position with a youngster with only a few hours of SL experience in a team that has out of form senior players well below their best.

Lilley has confidence and a good attitude and possesses some very good rugby skills. He lacks experience and time in a settled winning side to progress further. My only worry is a lack of pace something he shares with Sutcliffe. I was one of just a few that expressed concerns pre-season regarding our deficiencies at half back. But we are where we are with recruitment and if we are going with the youngsters then they must be allowed to make mistakes and the time to develop into their roles or be replaced for next season.

I agree, two injury ravaged teams struggling to find last season's form.
Both teams will improve when the regulars return and make the top 8. However neither team will make the top 4 this season so Wembley is the only hope of silverware for both Giants and Rhinos.
Let's hope for a West Yorkshire final between both teams.

On current form we will not make the top 4 but I would expect our form to improve and when the injured return we could easily catch up the leaders who are only 6 points ahead and who could well have their own injury problems and dip in form still to come.

Indeed with Garbutt back next week and if JJB and Falloon were also to play we could still beat Wigan next week.

Delaney with 42 tackles struggled once again to maintain his position as our top tackler

What was the attendance last night?

Soaked, cold & thoroughly dispirited by our display I'd guess.

14,962 - all as OF said

Never quite understood why "top tackler" is held in such high regard as an accolade.

If you play long minutes in the middle unit and the other side play a forward focussed game, you're going to be asked to make a lot of tackles. It's why invariably the "top tackler" in SL at the end of the season is a hooker who plays 70-80 minutes a week (Alker, Houghton, Roby etc).

More important statistically is tackle effectiveness (% of tackles made against tackles attempted) and the quality of defensive efforts, i.e. how often does the tackler lose the contact allowing a quick play the ball which you cant necessarily measure statistically.

Not one for the purists but we dug in and got the win we desperately needed Singleton was my M.O.M but i also think Lilley played well at 7 despite being hammered and making a few errors when switched to 9.
I also thought Keinhorst and Mullally looked decent off the bench but again i question why on at least 4 occasions Baldwinson was up and ready to come on but wasn't used especially when Delaney was on lone leg from the start of the 2nd half in a forward dominated game against a big pack????
Hopefully we gain confidence and get 2/3 bodies back for the Pies game but saying that it doesn't sound too good for Moon/Handley.

I think Lilley gets credit for his goalkicking, but he made a terrible read for the winning try. It was Keinhorst's persistence that got him out of jail for blowing a clear 3 on 2 by kicking.

Because tackling is one of the key areas of rugby and the main one in defense and a player regularly making 40 tackles rightly should win accolades.



True as in the same way it is invariably the fullbacks that make the most metres. However Delaney is a back rower and makes tackles all over the field and is easily our top tackler this season with 153 in 4 games. Not bad for a player that has been described as playing on one leg.



So by this logic Briscoe is our most effective and important tackler having made just one tackle with no misses?. By all means consider the misses too but also take into consideration the players who consistently make highest numbers of tackles are usually the ones that also make more misses too. It goes with the job of a hard grafter who is more involved in the game ie: often the lead kick chaser misses the tackle but his chase has harried and slowed the receiver sufficiently to allow arriving teammates to then make the tackle. However this good work gets recorded as a miss. Similarly a player making a one on one tackle that brings the attacker to the ground can be recorded as a miss if not completed but again allows others to complete the tackle and stop the attack.