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| Quote ="tad rhino"the only thing i disagree with is the briers is only a stand off.
is there a rule that smaller players are allowed to punch as it won't hurt as much?'"
Fair comment - you are right. I suppose if it had been for e.g. Morley, Ablett might have felt it - and there would have been a justifiable sending off. Smaller players do get picked on and wouldn't be human if they didn't lose it from time to time.
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| I think Lee might be getting some stick at training today for getting in a clean shot .... and it had no effect.
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| If it was Bailey he indeed probably would be banned for a game or two, but he has form, everybody knows he sets out to wind everyone up and is always first in to have a fight and first out when someone his own size comes in to have a go back.
Immediately before Briers lashing out, he copped one in the face from Ablett before he caught him by the collar, then he said something to him while he was on the floor. Doesn't make it okay for Briers attempt to hit Ablett, but it wasn't entirely unprovoked. He also only hit him on the shoulder.
As for the try, it is clearly on the floor when Benny gets up off the ground, ergo, if must have touched the floor at some point to be there so I don't see the problem. If it makes you feel better, Bentham didn't give it as a try, he gave benefit of the doubt, what else was he to do in the situation? Not give it because Leeds' fans didn't want it to be given?
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| Quote ="FLYINGPROP" I was laughed off here, '" That's for fairly obviously reasons.
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| you only saw the ball on the floor when the whistle had gone and players had moved. to give it on that would be an absolute joke.
i suspect had that happened against you in a final there may have been a different opinion.
if you cannot see the ball, whatever the teams involved, a try should not be given.
indeed bentham as VR once disallowed a peacock 'try' for exactly that reason
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| Quote ="tad rhino"you only saw the ball on the floor when the whistle had gone and players had moved. to give it on that would be an absolute joke.
i suspect had that happened against you in a final there may have been a different opinion.
if you cannot see the ball, whatever the teams involved, a try should not be given.
indeed bentham as VR once disallowed a peacock 'try' for exactly that reason'"
This is true, and a fair enough point to some extent, but why should it not be given? Plenty of times people pile on when someone is over the line, clearly just to obstruct the camera's view should it go to the screen. Of course we'd be just as bitter as you lot are if the shoe was on the other foot, but that's the fact, sports fans are highly hypocritical. But the fact that benefit of the doubt is there for when it is unclear but possible is there for situations like this. The defending team should have done better than let the attackers over their goal line in the first place so if it's a dodgy decision then try better next time.
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"The BOTD try WAS a joke but it maybe evened things up as Watkins forward pass - as "momentum" or not - it was 5 metres forward on the play back which Childs and Bentham would have seen.'"
It doesn't matter if it was 50m forward when BJB catches it, the original direction was clearly backwards.
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| Quote ="WireWireWire"then he said something to him while he was on the floor.'"
That should get him off at Red Hall, disgraceful behaviour. I'm just relieved my daughter wasn't watching.
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| Quote ="WireWireWire"If it was Bailey he indeed probably would be banned for a game or two, but he has form, everybody knows he sets out to wind everyone up and is always first in to have a fight and first out when someone his own size comes in to have a go back.'"
Ah, the oft told myth of Ryan Bailey, it never gets less interesting no matter how many times it's repeated. He sets out to wind everybody up, so? I've never seen him punch an opponent who has his back turned. Briers sucker punched Ablett which is the act of a coward and he was saved by a cowardly ref. For me it should be a 3 match ban because Ablett was walking away from him.
Quote ="WireWireWire"Immediately before Briers lashing out, he copped one in the face from Ablett before he caught him by the collar, then he said something to him while he was on the floor. Doesn't make it okay for Briers attempt to hit Ablett, but it wasn't entirely unprovoked. He also only hit him on the shoulder.'"
In that case every player on the pitch should be allowed one free punch on someone. Later in the game Briers kneed Delaney in the head, I'd like to see him get a ban for that too, but would have settled for Brier's brand of justice, he'd have ended up even uglier if Delaney had meted it out.
And finally, people who don't understand that a ball can move backwards whilst travelling forwards should really stop watching this game.
Quote ="WireWireWire"As for the try, it is clearly on the floor when Benny gets up off the ground, ergo, if must have touched the floor at some point to be there so I don't see the problem. If it makes you feel better, Bentham didn't give it as a try, he gave benefit of the doubt, what else was he to do in the situation? Not give it because Leeds' fans didn't want it to be given?'"
Firstly it's not even clearly on the floor when old 'elbows Westwood' gets up, so that's that argument immediately out of the window. Secondly, and I may have imagined this, but I was under the impression that your own team mates are not allowed to help you in grounding the ball, so as soon as the other player (Hill?) became involved that should have been the end of the play. Either way, benefit of the doubt was not brought in to create try's that were almost certainly not scored.
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| Quote ="tigertot"It doesn't matter if it was 50m forward when BJB catches it, the original direction was clearly backwards.'"
Must have been dead windy on Saturday if it started out backwards and ended up 5 yards forward.
Either that or Watkins could share the new ball with Jimmy Anderson next winter if he can swing it that much.
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| The play becomes dead when either a) Hill lends weight, or assuming that Child completely missed that happening when he blows the whistle to go to the screen.
Where the ball subsequently ends up five seconds later once the players start peeling off the floor is a complete red herring, and only an idiot (or Phil Bentham) would use that to form an argument that the ball must therefore have been on the floor five seconds earlier.
If a player is over the line and there is no evidence to suggest that the ball has been grounded prior to play being stopped, then "benefit of the doubt" is no better than just ignoring the evidence in front of you and flipping a coin.
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Must have been dead windy on Saturday if it started out backwards and ended up 5 yards forward.
Either that or Watkins could share the new ball with Jimmy Anderson next winter if he can swing it that much.'"
Another GCSE physics failure. I fear for the future of British scientific advancement if this is what the education system is churning out.
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| Quote ="Big Jim Slade"Ah, the oft told myth of Ryan Bailey, it never gets less interesting no matter how many times it's repeated. He sets out to wind everybody up, so? I've never seen him punch an opponent who has his back turned. Briers sucker punched Ablett which is the act of a coward and he was saved by a cowardly ref. For me it should be a 3 match ban because Ablett was walking away from him. '"
If he sets out to purposely rile people up into fighting with his cheap shots and his bullying of people like Riley then that is a clear indication that he is spoiling for a fight, that's form. Lee Briers does not do that. Ablett saw the punch coming so don't pull that one, he even ducked.
Quote ="Big Jim Slade"In that case every player on the pitch should be allowed one free punch on someone. Later in the game Briers kneed Delaney in the head, I'd like to see him get a ban for that too, but would have settled for Brier's brand of justice, he'd have ended up even uglier if Delaney had meted it out.
And finally, people who don't understand that a ball can move backwards whilst travelling forwards should really stop watching this game.'"
Where did I say Briers was right to hit anyone? I specifically said that he shouldn't have done it. I only said it wasn't unprovoked, which it wasn't, somebody cops you in the head you're gonna wanna do it back.
Just because you have been brain washed by the idiots on commentary doesn't mean everybody has. A ball can not simultaneously go backwards and forwards, end of. It either goes 5 metres forwards or it doesn't.
Quote ="Big Jim Slade"Firstly it's not even clearly on the floor when old 'elbows Westwood' gets up, so that's that argument immediately out of the window. Secondly, and I may have imagined this, but I was under the impression that your own team mates are not allowed to help you in grounding the ball, so as soon as the other player (Hill?) became involved that should have been the end of the play. Either way, benefit of the doubt was not brought in to create try's that were almost certainly not scored.'"
Are you hard of sight? Because I wear glasses and I clearly saw it on the floor when Westwood got up. Well sorry but you are allowed. Surely if you're all allowed to gang in and push a player into touch then you can also aid your own player in getting over the line. It wasn't clear, so 'almost certainly' doesn't come into it. 50/50 = attacking team, defend your line better next time instead of letting someone run 30 or 40 metres down field bouncing off feeble tackle attempts from your winger and fullback.
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| Quote ="WireWireWire"Just because you have been brain washed by the idiots on commentary doesn't mean everybody has. A ball can not simultaneously go backwards and forwards, end of. It either goes 5 metres forwards or it doesn't.
Are you hard of sight? Because I wear glasses and I clearly saw it on the floor when Westwood got up. Well sorry but you are allowed. Surely if you're all allowed to gang in and push a player into touch then you can also aid your own player in getting over the line. It wasn't clear, so 'almost certainly' doesn't come into it. 50/50 = attacking team, defend your line better next time instead of letting someone run 30 or 40 metres down field bouncing off feeble tackle attempts from your winger and fullback.'"
You couldn't have exhibited less of an understanding of the basic laws of the game if you had tried.
You didn't try, did you? Have I just missed an attempt at irony so subtle it actually looks like a labrador licked the keyboard?
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Must have been dead windy on Saturday if it started out backwards and ended up 5 yards forward.
Either that or Watkins could share the new ball with Jimmy Anderson next winter if he can swing it that much.'"
Steal a car, drive it a wall while eating a pie. As you hit the wall take a bite from the pie. See where the contents of your gob end up.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"You couldn't have exhibited less of an understanding of the basic laws of the game if you had tried.
You didn't try, did you? Have I just missed an attempt at irony so subtle it actually looks like a labrador licked the keyboard?'"
I feel it is you who exhibited less of an understanding of the basic laws of the game. Funny how the play is never 'dead' when a player is pushing towards the line and the would be hooker lends weight and pushes the player over the line even if they are generally held up in the process. The play is only called held when the players momentum is going backwards rather than forwards and an attacking teams player lends weight.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Another GCSE physics failure. I fear for the future of British scientific advancement if this is what the education system is churning out.'"
It was O level in my day mate.
And you never needed one to play Rugby League. If a pass ends up 5 yards further up the pitch - it's forward.
I did get O level Maths!!
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Another GCSE physics failure. I fear for the future of British scientific advancement if this is what the education system is churning out.'"
It is strange how so many rugby league fans struggle with momentum (not helped by Stevo on sky)
Videos like this help [urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg[/url
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"If a pass ends up 5 yards further up the pitch - it's forward.'"
No it's not
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie" If a pass ends up 5 yards further up the pitch - it's forward.!'"
Physics Fail
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| Quote ="tad rhino"if you cannot see the ball, whatever the teams involved, a try should not be given.
indeed bentham as VR once disallowed a peacock 'try' for exactly that reason'"
Was it in the Calderwood miracle defence game?
Battling Leeds edge home
26th September 2008
Leeds Rhinos 18 Wigan Warriors 14 Engage Super League: Final Eliminator
[iAfter the way they've performed this year, there's no doubt Leeds Rhinos deserve their Grand Final place – but they had to work incredibly hard to get there. Wigan Warriors were flattered by their four-point margin of defeat in a tense final eliminator at an enthralled Headingley Carnegie. Rhinos were on top for most of the game and dominated the third quarter, but – inspired by some incredible defensive heroics from ex-Leeds winger Mark Calderwood – Wigan hung in and for a long time it looked like it might be their night as the hosts saw chance after chance go begging. Leeds weren't at their best, but they created a host of opportunities, defended strongly and showed great character when things failed to go their way after the break. Rhinos were denied by video referee =#0000FFIan Smith three times and also had every right to feel aggrieved at the performance of referee Steve Ganson. Two of Smith's decisions were clear cut, but the third was a travesty. After 20 minutes of solid pressure following half-time, Leeds looked to have made the breakthrough when Jamie Peacock powered over. It looked a try at normal speed, but Smith took a few seconds over five minutes – a new world record – to decide the England skipper had been held up, in Liam Colbon's tackle. Surely, after that length of time, the attacking team should have been given the benefit of the doubt? [/i
Rob Burrow also had one of these chalked off in a game at the DW Stadium where not being able to see the ball absolutely grounded appeared enough to chalk it off.
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| Quote ="Tony Soprano"No it's not'"
When Sky asked the best player in Super League after the game - he was in agreement with me (and thousands of others) - it was forward!!!!!
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"If a player is over the line and there is no evidence to suggest that the ball has been grounded prior to play being stopped, then "benefit of the doubt" is no better than just ignoring the evidence in front of you and flipping a coin.'"
There should be no need for the 'BOTD' ruling in the vast majority of cases. It exists purely because we have a flawed protocol when it comes to using the VR.
In most cases, the on-field referee will simply say "check the onside and grounding" in a completely non-committal way. It gives the VR nothing to work with and as a result, the person in the booth has to run on the principle that if his evidence is inconclusive, he has to award a try on the pretense of 'BOTD'.
Compare with the NRL, where the on-field referee makes his call and it is then down to the VR to disprove that call. If he can't, he has to go with the on-field call. Rugby Union, I believe, has a similar system with field referees asking "is there any reason I can't / can award a try?" and in the NFL, the protocol is that the video evidence has to disprove the on-field call.
Not only does it give the VR more to work with, it makes it much clearer for all involved. If Child had indicated that from his angle, he thought it was a try, I'd have probably found it easier to stomach. Instead, we had a situation where two people (four if you count the TJs that stood their ground) couldn't decide between themselves so had to resort to a flawed protocol.
The NRL system also increases the level of accountability for the on-field referees. At the end of a month / season, Red Hall can look at the stats, see which referee has had the most calls overturned, and draw their own conclusions.
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"When Sky asked the best player in Super League after the game - he was in agreement with me (and thousands of others) - it was forward!!!!!'"
Sam Tomkins - that renowned physicist.
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| Quote ="bramleyrhino"Sam Tomkins - that renowned physicist.'"
No - that reknowned Rugby League player.
If even your best players don't understand the rules then you've got to question the validity of the rule.
If you need GCSE Physics to play/referee Rugby League I think we'll be in a spot of bother - don't you agree?
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