Calling for wholesale changes every time we lose a league game is getting rather boring now.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there in regards to your key positions. And ALL key positions at that.

1 - Brent Webb - Past his best and costs you more in penalties than he does anything else.
6 - Kevin Sinfield - A loose forward.
7 - Danny McGuire - A stand off.
9 - Rob Burrow - Is he a hooker or a scrum half? I think he plays well in either to be fair, but was very effective off the bench last year.
Other hooker - Paul McShane - Relegated to reserves in favour of an on-loan hooker.
13 - Whichever second rower you can be bothered to put there each week (happens at a lot of SL clubs these days, including mine).

I think if you signed a decent scrum half, it would go a long way to addressing the balance of the team. But at the moment you've got a lot of very good players being handicapped by playing out of position. Is this just an English coaching thing? This happened a lot at Hull over the Agar years.

The only problem with this plan is that Sinfield is NOT a loose forward any more. At stand-off he can get away with doing less tackling & hit-ups which is prolonging his career. Our pack isn't firing enough as it is without having to accommodate a lightweight 13 AND 9 (all our hookers are small!). If Sinfield plays there it means more work for the rest of the pack.

This is why Burrow was forced onto the bench when Buderus was here, and why he's now considered as a hooker. Either we get rid of one of these players, or we stick to the present formula when Burrow returns.

When will people realise it isn't 2004 any more? The game has moved on, and so have our pivotal players.

This seems pretty spot on to me...




But I'm also tending towards this...

Didn't Sinfield play 6 in 2004 (Furner at LF at least in the big games)



Aside from the defensive workload Sinfield doesn't really play any differently at 6 or 13. When Sinfield played 13 in 2007 & 2008 we had a monster pack that could carry a lightweight 13. I'm not sure we'll ever see a pack like that again.

One thing stands out more than any other mind.....Mcdermott has got to sort out brent webb. he is a great player but embarrassing for your club at the same time , he bittches more than tompkins does.
surprised he hasnt copped more 10 min sit downs for his gob than shown

I still would like to see sinfield have spell at loose forward, he is a good passer of the ball and usually a good tactical kicker. I don't think he is quick enough for the stand off role. As loose forward he should be linking the ball from the ruck area to the backs as when needed.
Early on this season I expressed my concern at burrows playing hooker,purely because of his lightweight build, running up at the opposition forwards he is highly effective but when tackled by two or three forwards the inflict a lot of damage. Remember at st Helen's they knocked seven bells out of him.
Obviously Danny Mc guire is a top class stand off let's play him there.
I can understand our coaching staff switching players around due to injuries,but once all the troops are back I would like players to fulfill the roles in which they seem to perform best at.
I make no apologies for these traditional views,having played the game for a number of years,I was always taught that the key to any successful team was the triangle shape of half backs with the loose forward.
We are fortunate we have three quality players who have proofed time after time they can produce the goods. At least let's try it out for a few games if it's not successful go back to what Brian Mac thinks will work.

Loose forward is just an any-mans rule these days. Extra pivot, extra back row, extra prop. You can suit it to what you like.

To me, it appears that the team HAS to fit around Kevin Sinfield or not at all. I think this is where there is an imbalance. He isn't a top class 6, and his moving there makes others have to move out of position (they do it at international level as well when we have better options).

I think Leeds need to put McGuire back at stand off, bring in a proper scrum half and if you want to continue with a front/back rower at loose, move Sinfield to hooker with Burrow coming off the bench.

I guess I must be in the minority, but I'm not overly worried at the moment. An unavoidable fact about the competition nowadays is that, other than perhaps the odd derby / top of the table game, the only time you're really going to see two sides going at each other full tilt is in a big cup match or a play off match. Beyond that, there are more often than not motivational factors which lead to one side being more "up" for the game than the other, and so far this season we've had three of those games (Saints just after the players had got what they wanted and got their coach sacked and now had the coaching team they wanted in place, Bradford in their supposed "last game ever" with a huge crowd and emotion running higher than ever, and Hull with a point to prove after the spanking they took from Wigan, numerous players back, an extra week off prior to the game, and fans worked up into a frenzy over the whole Briscoe/Pearson/Hetherington thing). Add to that our other two losses (at Wigan a week before the WCC on a night when not very much went our way at all, and against a strong Huddersfield team when we were missing the likes of Webb, Burrow and McGuire, and hence a large percentage of our creativity) and one could suggest that none of these losses were massively unexpected.

Obviously you have to factor in the fact that Leeds played badly in all of these games, but we have to accept during the regular season that sometimes there are going to be games when, for whatever reason, the other team simply wants it more than we do. Obviously, as fans, we want the team to play their best in every game, and over the past couple of years there have been numerous times when we haven't seen this, but I still don't think there's anything to be too worried about (for example, I certainly don't think we've been anywhere near as bad this season as Saints were in the month or so when the majority of their players seemed to be going out of their way to get Simmons sacked!).

I may be stupidly naive, but I genuinely think that, with a full strength team, when we're on our game, there's not a team in the league we're not capable of beating, and as such our season is far from being a write off. Caddick and Hetherington are about as far from being mugs as it gets - their faith in McDermott and the team paid off handsomely last year, and who on earth are we to question what they are doing this year and demand radical changes left right and centre? To judge the team so harshly on the back of the Hull game is crazy! We have a lot more big game performances still to come this season, and I remain hopeful that we will win something. If we don't? So be it - we have no divine right to win anything, and if we don't it will be because someone better than us did. I would still rather have our squad than any other squad in the league!

You're far too sensible for here

You may well be in the minority, doesn't mean you are wrong though.

A thoughtful, calm, post.

Short sighted ramblings always occur after a stinking defeat. Why weren't these ever so important 'issues' flagged after the WCC?

Ref wellsy 13.
As a kid I was fortunate to see Johnny Whitley play a few times,what a marvellous player. Also some hard men playing alongside him.Drake brothers etc etc.

I'd love to know what the differences people think there are in playing 6 & 7 these days

...or indeed after the recent excellent display against Catalan.

Our fans are far too reactionary. That goes both ways. As well as the usual suspects who creep out of the woodwork after the odd defeat you have the other category who over react to a victory or a good performance.

Pretty much this.

Cheers

I've held my tongue whenever these huge negative reactions have sprung up over the past year or so, but the fall out this week has proved just too baffling.... I have more memories than I would ever want of days, weeks, and months of misery in the past - regular hammerings from both Hull clubs and the likes of Widnes and Wigan in the 80s, numerous humiliations at the hands of Bradford, Saints and co in the early years of Super League, and so on - I'm sure we all have far too many dark days locked away in the recesses of our memory for any of our liking - and yet here we are, the reigning Super League Champions and World Club Champions, two weeks removed from a victory over Catalans which so many were purring about, and the rails are off, we should forget about 2012 and start preparing for 2013 by dropping half the side and playing loads of talented but not quite ready youngsters? Seriously?

Is this what we've come to, that we must win pretty much every single game, otherwise it can only be classed as abject failure? Did I miss the press conference announcing that we are now Wigan?

No. Once we achieve that, then winning is no longer enough. Once we are winning every game, then we must also with them with "style" (whatever that is) and then be compared to a team from the ancient past and reminded the current team is still not as good.

What do you want people to do? Appreciate a golden age while it lasts or something?

Can't imagine Ingliss playing 7

Oh come on....being reactionary is what makes this forum fun and interesting. You old fart.



How tedious it would be if everybody was pensive; non-emotional; afraid of the response the erudite might denigrate with and completely rational before considering making a contribution.

That is what being a fan is all about - it isn't about taken a dispassionate view about minute of every game - anyone who has been to an NRL game comments on the difference in atmosphere. Comments should be reactionary to a performance or what is the point?

Winning the GF last year put a gloss on what was a pretty poor year, this year is not much better - there are structural issues with this side that should not be ignored regardless of results. Leeds have lost 5 games out of 12 a 40% loss percentage - almost identical to last season!! so to suggest some fans are reacting to one poor performance is incorrect. Last year has made fans think Leeds can win it from anywhere and why bother about the here and now - history suggests last year is unlikely to be repeated. The best chance Leeds have is to finish as high up the table as they can.

We have dropped to many points and i would agree a top four finish is a must. However all the top sides have all to play each other again yet. Lots could change. I seem to remember you kept questioning the structure last year too. The structures fine. Burrow makes a big difference off the bench. I still fancy us for one of the two trophies this year