Just a recollection. If I am wrong then I guess I am right in so far as the Leeds coaching staff that know him better than us and worked with him daily didn't think he was worth a contract, unlike Gibson.

Was Gibson's =#FF0000decision making must therefore be in question also. Or did that just apply when you thought it was Broughton?

Whether Broughton turns out to be another Gareth Raynor or another Leroy Rivett only time will tell.

He was excellent on Saturday, a match winner.

Now that you've bookmarked my 'Bush appraisal' are you going to divulge your own thoughts or is it another of your secret opinions?

You want me to share my thougths on Bush?

I think with Jones-Bishop and watkins as young backs in the squad there was not a specific need to Broughton.

One good games does not make a great player. I would say that for 2 SL clubs to have had him and let him go, says quite a lot to me.

He may come back to bite us, but we can only have a squad of so many.

I don't think his performances at Hull last year were enough to persuade the club to replace the experienced Aussie winger, with a try-scoring record comparable with anyone in the competition, rather than just a couple of good performances on the telly.

Nail on the head.

I'm sure he was offered a 1yr deal Iirc along with Ratu and the club wanted them to be "dual registered" which both turned down.
Gibson just turned down a 1yr offer.

Links to any such offer would prove useful. Taken at face value the offer of a deal by Leeds would counter Leicester's claim that Leeds did not want to retain him.



Broughton has scored 9 tries in 15 SL Regular Round games in somewhat hapless teams (Hull 2009 and Salford 2010)

I wonder how many tries Scott Donald managed to score in his first 15 SL Regular Round games for Leeds?

The former is a young local lad, the latter is a relatively expensive by comparison Australian so that will score him some undeserved points in some quarters round here.



Is that a couple of good performances in addition to the one at the weekend you mention above?

Broughton has played a total of=#FF000015 rounds of SL his key stats are:

Metres - 1718
Drives - 207

Tackles - 68
Missed Tackles - 7
Errors - 13
Penalties - 0

And an additionaL stat for wingers which for me indicates workrate:

Dummy Half Runs - 88

Looking at Scott Donald's stats playing in a Champion team in 2009:

Metres - 1735
Drives - 219

Tackles - 70
Missed Tackles - 21
Errors - 26
Penalties - 1

Dummy Half Runs - 55

Those stats were amassed over =#FF000025 appearances.

Donald was the last of the antipodean contingent to be contracted for 2010 and now Leeds can't afford to recall Jones-Bishop from the Harlequins as there would be salary cap implications according to Gary Hetherington.

If he had chosen to promote one of the youthful local products in his place then presumably the salary cap wouldn't be as restrictive as it is currently being claimed to be.

So your saying the stats prove we should of ditched Scotty and signed Broughton because he's the better player and not an aussie?
Whilst i like to see youth get its chance and i even agreed with Gotcha's idea not to give Donald another year if it meant Smith stayed,there's no way Broughton would of/is an adequate replacement for Scotty and no numbers you post will convince me of that.
Smith imo would of been not least for his versatility but young Broughton no.

Quote ="rhinoms"So your saying the stats prove we should of ditched Scotty and signed Broughton because he's the better player and not an aussie? Whilst i like to see youth get its chance and i even agreed with Gotcha's idea not to give Donald another year if it meant Smith stayed,there's no way Broughton would of/is an adequate replacement for Scotty and no numbers you post will convince me of that. Smith imo would of been not least for his versatility but young Broughton no.'" I'm not saying stats =#FF0000prove anything. It's how you interpret them. They're not my stats, they're all available here www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2010 You would have to weigh the factual evidence for yourself once you've considered the relative experience, comfort level, team performances etc. Which of the stats show Donald's value above that of a local Leeds product? Shouldn't Leeds be the ones to benefit from their investment in youth? I can only conclude that there is another 'bolter' about to roll off the production line that will leave us to ask the question Jodie who in 2011 ? Donald in 2010 is a, relatively speaking, expensive luxury. There comes a stage when it's time for player and club to go their seperate ways (I'm sure I read that sentiment expressed on here only yesterday) and while it's always interesting and amusing to hear about McShane, Diskin and Buderus it's also nice to change the subject occasionally.

Quote ="rhinoms"So your saying the stats prove we should of ditched Scotty and signed Broughton because he's the better player and not an aussie? Whilst i like to see youth get its chance and i even agreed with Gotcha's idea not to give Donald another year if it meant Smith stayed,there's no way Broughton would of/is an adequate replacement for Scotty and no numbers you post will convince me of that. Smith imo would of been not least for his versatility but young Broughton no.'" I'm not saying stats =#FF0000prove anything. It's how you interpret them. They're not my stats, they're all available here www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2010 You would have to weigh the factual evidence for yourself once you've considered the relative experience, comfort level, team performances etc. Which of the stats show Donald's value above that of a local Leeds product? Shouldn't Leeds be the ones to benefit from their investment in youth? I can only conclude that there is another 'bolter' about to roll off the production line that will leave us to ask the question Jodie who in 2011 ? Donald in 2010 is a, relatively speaking, expensive luxury. There comes a stage when it's time for player and club to go their seperate ways (I'm sure I read that sentiment expressed on here only yesterday) and while it's always interesting and amusing to hear about McShane, Diskin and Buderus it's also nice to change the subject occasionally.

Number of Selections in the dream team.

Only, it would seem, if they're players rated by you (see appraisals of Ashley Gibson and Tom Bush).

I don't rate eithers chances very highly in 2010. Broughton, I suspect, will continue to improve though and that will continue to be reflected in the relative stats.



The key is making sure you release the right ones at the right time and retain the right ones for succession planning. Leeds will very likely need a new winger shortly. Leeds must have a real bolter (as yet unseen at 1st grade level) perhaps Chisolm?



As the master of the concise appraisal do you have any kind words for Tom Bush yet?

With stats like that I wonder why Hull didn't want to sign him up permanently either.



Interesting comparison stats wise, and Broughton does seem to come off better. But there are many other factors. SUch as for 60% or last year, Donald was playing with a new Centre partner every week, and even when settled, was not a natural centre playing there.

I agree with you that its much better to have a young british (leodensian if possible) playing in that position, and that a quota spot is not best used on a winger, but I don't think Broughton was good enough for that.

He may come back to bite us, but he won't be a Jason Robinson IMO

Nor do I but I also don't think Broughton will ever hit the heights Donald has or that Donald is still capable of hitting.

Leeds succession planning has been pretty decent for about 8 years now. I've no idea what Chisolm or Bush are capable of but, then again, I'd no idea of what Hall was capable of until he hit the 1st team and, I'll be honest, my initial appraisal didn't see him being the kind of player he was last year.

Against Quins he had few chances but did what was asked of him with no errors. Very impressed with what he did against Wigan. Certainly some promise there and he looks more the part from his two wing appearances than BJB did there for his.

Why does Broughton need to be a 'modern day great' in two codes? Scott Donald certainly isn't.

The question for me was (even though it's now too late) could and should one of Broughton/Watkins/Jones-Bishop replace Scott Donald in the 2010 squad?

And as a supplementary to that, would he have been a better option than we are seeing now in Bush, Coady and Clarkson?

Robinson was someone who let we let slip, and probably on of our biggest mistakes.

I don't think any of the above should have replaced Donald for the following reasons

Broughton - not good enough, not experienced enough
Watkins - wrong position, not experienced enough
Jones-Bishop - wrong position, not experienced enough

Now if they were good enough (if slightly less good than Donald), and were looking at the right position I would be tempted to have them as one of 2 main wingers at the club, provided there was ample cover in the squad. I wouldn't be willing to throw a kid with little experience into a full time role, when he is playing out of his favoured position.

Next season I culd see Donald being released, and one of them making it, or Bush or Chisholm, or even a combination like we had quite a lot with Smith/Hall in 2007

The powers that be offered what they thought appropriate this was rejected and the lad moved on let it go tvoc yer holding on too tight your ego's writing cheques your body can't cash!

Not that I can be too bothered about looking through a few pages of this but is there an arguement as to whether Gibson was offered a contract or told he wasn't needed?

If so yes he was but it wasn't what he wanted. That's why he moved on.

If there isn't that argument then sorry, as you were

Inside information or can you link to any article anywhere that mentions a Leeds offer to Broughton?

Just going by what i was told when he left for Salford and his brother Brooke joined Bastien at Wire.
I think i also read it in the LE along with the deals that Gibson and Ratu rejected.

I know I will probably get stick for this, but Ashley did get offered a new deal, however, Salford offered abit more too him and garenteed him the number 5 shirt and first team rugby, hense the reason why he chosen Salford.

I wonder if he realised that would mean playing as back up hooker?

The answer to your question is no. Watkins should (and was) be in the squad in addition to Donald. BJB should arguably be in the squad but, given he would've been behind Watkins in the "utility/cover" department he was let out on loan. That would leave Broughton well down the pecking order (and rightly so) which is why I assume the lad weighed up all his options and ended up at..................Salford. That's my view and clearly the view of the coaching staff and management

Possibly but given what I have stated above and given the clubs, sorry, given that Salford were barging down his door he wouldn't have hung around on the off-chance that Donald, Delaney and Watkins copped injuries. If the lad is as good as you think he is I don't blame him for taking the golden opportunity of 1st team rugby at........Salford........rather than languishing down the pecking order at Leeds waiting for injuries. I suppose the shame of it is that if he hadn't taken that offer at.......Salford.......he'd now be getting a chance to prove your point and show he's a better winger than Donald.

the fact that on paper he has loads going for him.

SL experience
Young
British
No quota spot

but none of the 12 clubs finishing above Salford in the table were willing to take a gamble on him despite all the above positives says to me that none of those teams saw much in him.

If he improves, then fair enough, we missed out, that is a big IF for me.

Also, whilst Francis Meli still gets a game at a top club, show just how little he was rated

I wonder how Broughton's & Lyne's stats compare for last week's game?

You picked up on the non too subtle tone of my post.

We didn't want him, Hull didn't want him and they're the two clubs that got the closest look.

As a complete free agent, free to negotiate and go to any club in the league I think his final destination tells you how most within the game judge him, TVOC aside.

Still, as you say, we MIGHT all be wrong.