You think the CC final was a bigger game than the GF? They played both with 17 men. In the CC final (as with many games) a player got injured.

In every game players will carry knocks. In most games no player will be 100% free. If a player is crucial and a game breaker the coach is likely to take more risks. Like Mclennan did on Friday with Sinfield who was, by all accounts, badly missed from the week before.

That is very different and not comparable with choosing to play a game with 16 men.

I take it that is an error and you meant to type "decided not to play him"?

Nonsense. The team had as much a chance (if not more) of winning the CC final in 2005 as they do winning this year's GF considering they were already in that years CC Final and haven't yet qualified for this year's GF. That we almost did (and perhaps should have) won in 2005 means that your assertion that the team "had nowhere to go" because of Senior's selection is, frankly, silly and you should let it go.

Where do we disagree? I have told you several times I desperately hope McLenann eclipses Smith's achievements at Leeds. Why would I not want him to do that? Bizarre.

Do you think I am the kind of saddoe that would hope the team I support doesn't do well just because I have a personal dislike for a coach or player. What kind of unbalanced saddoe would approach life like that?

Indeed.

Watch Saints at their best. The half back will receive the ball and there will be several options and a number of runners (both dummy and support) to create space and options for the half back.

Poor McGuire, Burrow and Sinfield rarely have such a luxury at Leeds.

A good supporter will routinely follow the forwards in the hope of an offload - I'd agree that that would probably take you out of the next play (at least as first receiver) but that doesn't happen on every play and a halfback that puts a player through a hole can then be on his shoulder to finish the break.

McGuire's general transition to creator from supporter (or to put it another way a more rounded player) started long before Mclennan - and rightly so.

He may not score as many tries as he used to but that's probably down to a slight loss of pace and a number of other support options in the side.

Indeed,when webb is scoring or even burrow more often than not mcguire is next man in line.

Total cr@p.

If he is giving others more opportunitioes, rather than running himslef, then he will be able to support when someone else makes the break. He can't support when he makes a break now can he?

I think that under Tony Smith there is no way McGuire would have been the slouch he was last Friday when Buderus put him clear through.

Nothing to do with coaches, more his injuries and bulking up.

He still should have scored though

He was faster then because he hadn't suffered as many injuries plus roberts is no slouch either!

Why?

McGuire went for it but didn't have the legs. He got run down by a faster player.

I don't think he looked confident he was going to make it, and his line was very indirect, whenI think he should have pinned his ears back.

Its a shame to see McGuire lacking the pace we used to see. It used to be the case that when he was beyond the line it was a try

You see all that but you wouldn't notice an attacker stood in the defensive line.



McGuire changed direction to try and wrong foot his persuer who was clearly faster than him and ended up getting closer to scoring than he otherwise would have, IMO.




It is a shame but it comes to us all. Even Offiah slowed down in the second half of his career.

Cheeky.

I had replays, and Sky+ to help out

As I said your retoric here conflicts with the underlying messages in many of your posts.

You can't have it both ways!! Mcguire has bulked up and his defence has improved ten fold!! It has made him a more complete player!! It's a tough trade off but one IMO the club felt was needed

agreed. he's a much better player now than in 2004, but its still a shame to see him get caught when away

You described the 2005 CC as Leeds biggest game of the year. The point I was making was the 2005 GF was actually Leeds biggest game of that year, was it not?

Except I would guess the medical staff who were qualified to assess him and the player himself. Of course, sometime after the event, you would know better than them.



Insanity. Senior played in the game, unlike Worrall on friday. You can't alter that inescapable fact to suit your ramblings.

Re: the CC loss was it down to Smith or Marcus Bai, Richie Mathers and mark Calderwood all having silly brain farts? Certainly arguable.

In case you missed it, there is a knockout element to decide the Super League champions.

=red[size=200Allow me to repeat, in large red letters in the hope you can finally understand. I sincerely hope Mclennan overhaul's Tony Smiths acheivements at Leeds because that would mean success for the club I have supported for some time and that is far more important - to me at least - than having some petty agenda against an individual like you so clearly display against Tony Smith.[/size

If you stopped listening to the voices in your head things would be much clearer.....

I'm just going to throw one thing only in here regarding the Senior challenge cup situaiton, and the pointing out that the GF was a bigger game that season.

When Senior got the injury and a doubt for the cup final, it was widely said throughout the game, and by people close to Senior, that he would play the Challenge cup final with pain killing injections. However, he would not play again for the season after that if they took that route, due to the further damage it would cause.

The club under Smith, took that risk to play Senior because they wanted the CC win to follow on from the previous championship win and WCC win.

That risk failed (it was always a gamble), and not only did it fail there it also runined the chances of winning the second on the trot GF. So in that case you could argue that the club saw the CC as the bigger game that season.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

If Bai didn't have that brain fart, if Calderwood collected the grubber, if Sinfield & Ward made the easy tackle on Cooke, If Sinfield scored the drop goal.


Would the Senior thing ever of been mentioned?, I'm sure that in SL injured players play every week.

And had McKenna not got injured too.

That said, playing Senior was a big risk that didn't pay off and one where I felt John Kear played an excellent mind game in the week before on the subject.

The bigger error though was going into the game with only 2 recognised props against a big Hull pack.

I've said i want Mclennan to achieve great success with Leeds.

He thinks I don't want that.

I don't know much about psychology but I think he's projecting his own warped values onto me. He hated Smith. Illogically, he didn't want Smith as an individual to succeed even if, by extension, that meant Leeds succeeded. David is an avid supporter of certain individuals with Leeds organisation and a avid hater of others. Its' really weird.

Because I have raised issues on here with Mclennans tactics and because I questioned, very early, the hypocritical leeway posters on here gave Mclennan as opposed to Smith David assumes I hate him in the same way he hates(d) Smith. So he assumes I don't want Leeds and McLennan to be successful. Despite me saying that I do, repeatedly and in the clearest possible way.

We made some howlers in a game that we lost by 1 point, had Barrie played and played anything like he did in the last game against Bradford then he would of been a massive hinderence, more so than Senior going off.

We lost and everybody wants to make an excuse, sometimes it happens
had Senior won the Lance Todd it would of been hailed as a master stroke by Smith

Ala Kris Radlinski at Murryfield 2002?

I think we're in general agreement but Barrie appeared to have been scapegoated - he wasn't the only (or worst) offender from the previous week and going into that game with 2 props was like a 10 point start. Not that surprising that after over 70 minutes game time Danny Ward got stepped by Cooke for the final score.

But he would still have been out for rest of the season, including GF. So not such a master stroke.

You'd have hoped Leeds would have learned from their own 2003 Challenge Cup experience that taking clearly injured players into a final is a high risk strategy.