How can he - if he did that he basically saying his boss hasn't done his job - come on Richie!!

Donald has played most of his career at Leeds on the left though. Either way your point is laughable.. they can both play either side. Your question was are saints better man for man and who would I take out of their back line... I've given you 2 or 3 examples: Gidley better than Gibson or Smith at centre(i am correct), Gardner better than Hall or BJB on the wing(I am correct). And this is what you come back with

The 1 thing i will point out re-signing's is to think back to 2006,many screamed for a new signing and GH went out and signed an international centre(toopi) he arrived just in time to witness a dire effort in the cc semi v huddersfield.
He then went on to make his debut and play the rest of season,did he "lift" the team???
Was his introduction a kick up the backside the squad needed??
Also it ended with him being slated at every oppertunity,and GH's sanity being questioned so it prove's that new signing's don't always work mid-season especially when added to a team low on confidence and form.
I know we signed Ali mid 2004 and he turned into a fantastic aqusition but that squad wasn't on a run of poor form or low confidence was it?

Correct and well said.

Whether you accept it or not IMO this season is going to be a development season.

Eastwood may be coming next year so the club are not going to recruit in his position until they know the situation. This is not ideal but unless the club could have cancelled the agreement and there was another player of the necessary quality available I can't see what choice the club had and there is no way that Leeds will get a player of the necessary quality for a season so they may as well look at their planning for 2010.

They, apparently, tried to get Soliola, it didn't come off. There is not a great choice in quality centres at the moment, hence Abletts ability to play there in A GF winnng team, so the club have looked at developing Smith Watkins and Gibson again if this doesn't work out they can plan a signing for 2010.

There are several players out of contract in 2009 whose decision to sign or not may influence future recruitment policy and will therefore restrict potential recruitment for this year. This is not an ideal situation but it is the real world.

More importantly players who were capable of winning games last year have suddenly become impotent at creating this year. There's been complaints about the tactics of running it down the middle and not spreading the ball wide whilst also berating the centres who are not receiving the ball. We've had calls to recruit at centre, wing, second row and prop but the creative maestros are the hooker, scrum half, stand off and loose forward. They are the ones not leading the team around the park and taking the game by the scruff of the neck. Who is organising the forwards and getting them running onto the ball.

There is one of two things, either McClellan is not allowing them to be creative or they are not doing their job properly. This is what needs to be sorted first, not recruiting further players to who will end up in the same situation.

* Note my opinion is taken from the games that have been shown live and my reading of reports on these boards.

Good point well made about Toopi. The thing is with Toopi though he'd been demoted into the reserves for a while before we came in so the warning signs were there, but i get your point. I think they have to chose very carefully but nothing is 100% certain with how signings work out.
Signings or no signings we also are playing poorly as a team and this needs to be addressed.

well last season we signed the part time french player eric anselme on a tempory contract.

The only thing that's going to develop that I can see is the advancing ages and mileage of Peacock, Senior, McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield, Diskin, Buderus, Ali, JJB, Kylie, Kirke and Webb. Then we have Donald and now looking likely Smith, to replace. We don't have a lot to develop in place of these guys (although I do think Ablett will turn into a very good back row forward).
Not a good time to have a gap year.

Sorry, be development I meant a vpause whilst the club look at where the longer term need is going to be not 2009. As I said with the Eastwood and Lee Smith situations and another 5/6 players OOC the clubs first priority is to see who will be there in 2010 before it signs or makes any commitments to further recruitment. In that way it will be a development year.

You stand still in this sport, you'll get overtaken really quickly and it takes a while to get that momentum back...

FFS you might aswell compare Leon Pryce to Ryan Hall then


Webb, Donald, Smith, Senior Hall vs
Wellens, Gardner, Gidley, Gilmour, Meli
Only Gidley over Smith is a clear cut Saints win, but I'd rather take Smith's potential than the short terminsm of Gidley.

Didn't we sign another hooker too?
Should any of our younger players have improved in the last year?
Did our coaching and conditioning staff do anything in the off-season?

McRae said just that a week ago.
Seems very common in soccer.

I agree which is why I assume the club signed Eastwood and Soliola. Unfortunately one has been delayed (possibly) and the other, if true, didn't come off due to an injury from what i can gather. I agree the club will need to get momentum back and it is not where IMO the club wanted to be. I'm not saying it's right or wrong what they are doing but unless a quality player came up and fulfilled a longer term need for the club rather than a 2009 need I do not see the point in signing for the sake of it and affecting the requirements of the club for the next few years.

We'd better write off the whole reserve acadamy squad now then!!

Who is this we? Does it include Brian McClennan in 2009 with the limited squad he has at his disposal?

The only time any of your four designated second rowers haven't been required in the 17 on duty so far this season is when they have been unavailable through injury.

Hull KR (Away) Lauitiiti out injured
Warrington (Away) Kirke out injured
St Helens (Away) Kirke & Lauitiiti out injured

A total of 4 absences out of a possible 44 appearances. That doesn't leave much room for rotation, rest or recovery from injury.

Another prop (to release Kirke for his primary role) or another centre (to release Ablett for his primary role) were the minimum off-season requirements. Ambler/Manning/Brown/Gibson/Watkins don't appear to be trusted options even against the lesser lights of SL at the moment.

"We" is the sport of rugby league.
How any second rows do you expect to use in one game?



Gibson and Watkins are the cover added to the team from last year, along with the emergence of Smith and Hall as. New singings push them down the selection order, and as we've seen so often, it's "use them or lose them" in these days of the salary cap.

dear me... I'm going to leave it at that. I really am bored with this now...

Good.

You'd pick argument with your own shadow...

My shadow knows better than that.

aye bet it does.

I'd have five props and use four of them each game, I'd then have 4 second rows and use three of them each game. My fourth bench spot this season would be Diskin/Buderus given their availability. The fifth prop and fourth second row would rotate with those selected and cover injuries to sinfield or McGuire/Burrow where Sinfield moves in to the halves.



Gibson offers very little as was already fairly evident before his injury, if his current contract is extended beyond 2009 at Leeds I'd be amazed. Watkins has potential but is 18 months away from being a reliable option at centre week in week out. In the meantime he plays against the lesser lights or when injuries dictate to gain his experience. He's under contract until 2012 so there should be no fear of losing him. Smith was this year's designated right centre but with first Webb's recovery and now his own injury we haven't had a chance to evaluate that gamble just yet. Only time will tell whether we ever get to see if the gamble paid off.

Aren't we OK for that though? Just about?
Before the season began, I expected Kirke to spend more time at prop, although he has played a little there. That gives us our five props.
Our second rows are then Ali, JJB, Ablett plus Allan and Worrall pm their way up.



So with Smith as first choice, you'd have to think that really Gibson and Watkins are the kind of level of ability and potential you would expect there, particularly considering we also have Ablett experienced in the position.

Yeah for me almost there, Leeds just needed a signing of someone like, ooh I don't know so I'll just pick a name out of thin air here 'Greg Eastwood' and they'd have been sorted. The problem is (and it is a problem) that didn't materialise. The question is what should the reigning Champions do about that? Go to Allan and Worrall? Well not really not if they were serious about mounting a challenge across all comps this season. Is Allan really a second row by trade anyway and in Worrall we have 'Ablett light' and in Ablett we have 'Ellis light'.




Centre wasn't so much of an issue for me once Webb got back to fitness with Senior and Smith designated first choices although I had misgivings pre season that Hall was the real deal on the right and I couldn't see the logic or possibility of disturbing our excellent go to pairing of Senior and Donald on the left. Pre-season for me Smith was the right wing choice not Hall.