Bit harsh to pin so much of the blame on Achurch. Didn't think he was more outstandingly crap than at least half a dozen others.

The fact that Catalans didn't even bother with their usual sh)thouse tactics shows how easily they dominated our pack.

Short turnaround for the cas game too after two bad defeats .

Burrow and Lilley should be the hooker and bench hooker vs Cas with Sinny back in the halves with McGuire.

Our forwards look knackered and the short turn around / Walters on the bench doesn't help that.

Lets hope Watkins is back so Ablett can go back to the SR (I'd rest him if we had jjb available) and get Cuthbertson back at LF and Delaney on the bench .

I think we can best Cas and Hudds but we now need two good wins and to hope Wigan lose vs saints or don't have a big win to effect the points difference any further .

This could turn out to be a good thing.You don't want too long to dwell on a performance like that and i'm sure the players will be really keen to put it behind them as a one off blip.What better way than against your local rivals at home infront of what should be a good crowd. Good for us Cas are out of the running now too, if we can start well and get an early score or two, its doubtful they will have the desire to up the intensity to get in the arm wrestle so hopefully a big win is on the cards. Then we should have a longer turnaround for the Hudds. game the following week if it turns out to be a decider for the hub cap. Time to stay positive guys

Normally yes, but given how knackered the players looked ,especially the forwards it's quite worrying.

We need a strong win and recapture form ahead of the play offs instead of being able to guarantee LLS early and then rest players for the Huddersfield game.

One of the worst performances of the last 2-3 years and there has been some real rubbish in that time period. Needs to be confined to history and on to next week.
What cannot be ignored is the fact that Achurch has yet again put in a performance that was inept and devoid of back bone. His time is now up as a Leeds player and he should be nowhere near putting on a shirt in 2016. What ever you have to do Gary get rid.

I agree regarding Achurch, never been a fan. The rare performances this year have all be poor to rubbish . Waste of a quota spot

No but the others have put previous performances of quality - I can't remember Achurch doing that. For me his time is up at Leeds rather invest the time in a youngster

I must confess I have always defended Achurch as being a decent promising wide running second rower (and it was partly McDermott's fault for insisiting on using him as a rotation prop).....but that bluddy awful peformance culminating in kicking when having only Escare (sp) to beat has brought me over to the 'get rid' camp. If I was Keinhorst I'd be feeling decidely pished off at losing my deserved Wembley bench spot to Achurch.

Overall - as many of said already - a dreadfully lazy display from most of the team. Catlans were very good and I wish we had Carney in our ranks (brilliant passing skills), but the capitulation was shocking.
Why did Hardaker not gun for the line too with his chance? Instead he threw out what must have been the worst pass of the night.

It was almost as this was the week after wembley (at least against Saints there was a fight).

Keeping up the intensity match after match is a tough ask (and there is some consolation that both Saints and Wigan were hardly convincing in their matches this week) so on a positive finish I guess we have to recognise that and trust that this indeed was the trough and we are building again to the finale !!!!

Yep fully agree.Iv'e said elsewhere around Wembley time that Garbutt has shown and offered more in his handful of games than Achurch has in his whole 3 seasons here. I do concede he hasn't had any luck with injuries but he can't say he hasn't been given every opportunity by the club.

Achurch has given people hope now and again that he'll come good with a good showing here and there.....but really those performances were pretty much always against the lower teams in the competition, can't honestly recall a big match showing from him.

Achurch has had a lot of time off and an extended recovery time due,especially after the knock out two minutes in.

He should have been fresh and a handful.didn't seem to want to get involved at all

Yes must remember that before the Saints defeat last week we had won 10 of our last 11 with the only defeat the narrow lost at Wigan and with a lot of really good performances in those games. Hard to keep that up for another 5/6 weeks then so hopefully it is a 2/3 week lull before performing again when the playoffs start.

Well........ You all know what this slating of Achurch means don't you?

He'll get the winning try in the GF............


Jokes he'll be injured by then.

On a serious note, I always perceived Achurch of just needing to get a long run of games together, thinking that deep down he could actually produce some quality......... Then I saw him bottle it against a player with a physique of a child. What on earth.

He'd probably dislocate his shoulder diving over the try line.



I said it before when people said it was unfair that he was being asked to do a job at prop when he never looked good there.....that was alarming. He has the size to play prop and he could get an offload away so he's got the attributes to play prop....except one attribute meant he failed there, that he didn't fancy it. No surprise at all then that when the going gets tough he flounders, that's not what has won us titles in the past.

Achurch is just awful, not tough enough for a top SL side, he's an Australian version of Ian Kirke

I was thinking the same, just thought i would let someone else say it first

I've decided his new nick name is "Aussie Kirke"

[quot

Worse than that! Aussie version of Bailey.

The Achurch bashing is a bit OTT for me. Hall was getting slated on here the other week because he chose to run over an opposition player rather than give it to a player in a better position.

Achurch wasn't in the top 5 poor performers last night, though he doesn't have the previous good performances to back him up like Sinfield mcguire and peacock who were abject last night

It's not just on last night though Eagle.I know im in the camp on cutting our losses on Achurch asap and have been for a while.Nothing against the guy but for one reason or another his stay just hasn't worked out and it doesn't look like it will.

I said months ago we needed another top quality second row and I stand by it. JJB is done, achurch and keinhorst squad players, no more than that

Agree with this.

I generally save most criticism for the pack when performances like yesterday occur.
Peacock, legend that he is, was very poor.
Cuthbertson never really seemed to get going, though showed toward what he can do.
Ward seemed busy as ever as did Ablett.
Singleton I thought really stood up and for a prop in a very beaten pack was excellent.

I don't like the Sinfield to hooker thing. It just isn't working. That's not necessarily a criticism of Sinfield's play at hooker, he isn't really doing anything wrong. It's just it leaves us with only half back which really isn't working.

I thought Jordan Lilley looked good there, again whilst playing in a beaten pack. If McDermott isn't keen on using Robbie Ward for whatever reason, then I'd start Lilley there next week with Burrow to come off the bench.

I agree that he has flattered to deceive. And he has been a disappointment. I would get rid of there were a suitable replacement made. I just think he wasn't as bad as people made out last night. There were far bugger culprits

They were other culprits last night yes, but those same culprits like Peacock for example, would you back against him come playoff time to step up? Other culprits like Cuthbertson for example, but would you back against him being a key player for us in the next few years?

Could you say the same about Achurch? Not totally excusing their performances but surely the likes of Peacock and Cuthbertson etc. have earned the right to have a shocker and be forgiven? Achurch hasn't, and he also hasn't had a gruelling long season with a sizeable break just recently meaning fatigue can't be linked to him.

Players have bad games. Players make mistakes. There was a lot of that from a lot of people last night.

What separates Achruch's performance was that there was an air of gutlessness about it.

He should not play Thursday. The other players that had stinkers have earned the right to have another game to put it behind them He hasn't.