Well I understand some of your comments / concerns and think the pack could do with beefing up a bit BUT you've still got a darn good team, and I can think of 90% of other non-Leeds fans who would love to be in your position.

As a Wire fan i wouldn't swap him for TS and I can imagine Wigan and maybe Hudds wouldn't swap their coaches either but most of the rest.....

66 Pages.

You so-called fans should be ashamed.

I wonder after stating that McDermott should hand in his resignation after a narrow 2 point lost at a resurgent Wakefield whilst missing several key men.....if tvoc wants Tony Smith to quit after losing by 14 to an extremely out of form Widnes.

Considering one view was based on a string of poor performances, and the other was after a string of excellent ones, I can say I have seen enough years of tvocs posts to know he has far more about him, and not dumb enough to think that.

lets see how the season ends. if no finals are reached i think questions would rightly be asked if mcdermotts time was up

Well said Sir.

We have a set of real moaners on this forum who are not typical of the majority of supporters IMO. They arrogantly believe that if Leeds are not beating everybody convincingly each week then it is not right and therefore must be Brian Mac's fault or Hetherington's or both. They do not understand that even top players make mistakes and cannot delivery top form each week and that if they were able to do this each week sport would become utterly boring. I wonder if these same people are so perfect in their own jobs - I do not remember the Pope creating so many new Saints!

After such an entertaining game with excellent opposition instead of acclaiming the positives these oh so critical experts jump in with their blame game. Superleague is in the entertainment business and we got our money's worth on Thursday night mistakes and all.

Your team are to be congratulated and if we cannot win the Championship this year I hope Cas do.

I don't know about that. But he sure has it in for Brian Mac and I wouldn't be suprised if he has a Tony Smith poster on his wall, twitching face and all!

I think he should stick to collecting stats he`s good at that.

Maybe he bought the poster from the same store you bought your Brian McDermott poster.....complete with kneeling mat to pay due homage on.

TVOC is a very knowledgeable and erudite contributer....and noticeable by his absence. He has probably concluded it is not worth the abuse and excessive time he has had to contribute to defend his posts from others that seem desperate to usurp and better him. (The amount of time some have on here to post lengthy diatribes is astonishing.)

Some of those lengthy exchanges were probably largely ignored or not read at all....it certainly was the case with myself.

I for one miss TVOC's posts.

More likely he realised how foolish he looked challenging people to leave the board permanently because they didn't share his dislike of McDermott.

That one of his first contributions in quite a while on here was to say McDermott should step down for losing at Wakefield shows that this one time knowledgable poster has become just bitter and negativity fuelled. He makes no bones about not liking McDermott, which is fair enough but it got to the point he couldn't even be reasoned about how the team was doing. Again it's been proven recently (and in the past) when he's pointed the blame of Quins/London plight at McDermott's feet when we all clearly know they're many many more reasons to the story of that clubs woes but he wouldn't hear any of that.

What I continue to find astonishingly laughable is this continued claim/view by some that "they aren't allowed to have an opinion if it's negative and they get attacked by other posters".

This simply isn't true, the whole purpose of this board is for people to talk and debate about rugby and Leeds in particular. When people make a point it's part and parcel that others will discuss/argue/agree with it otherwise what is the point of the board? Does it get heated at times....yes, but I've never seen anybody told they can't have an opinion or tried to be kicked off the board (with the exception of William Eve for his obvious trolling and tvoc's childish 'loser leaves board' challenge to me). There's a big difference between an opinion being challenged and an opinion not being allowed, some are crying wolf that it's the latter when they can't think of a more intelligent comeback argument when their original view is challenged. When one of the negative types post something and people argue the point, the poster says he isn't allowed an opinion. Yet these same posters will argue positive posts and say that these views are simply rose-tinted or question the rugby knowledge and experience of said poster.

Printer - this board needs the likes of TVOC he brings a different way of putting his point across. The sin bin used to be a vibrant board until Mintball tried force her opinion on everyone. Now its dead as posters could not put up with someone's opinion being rammed down their throat on every topic.

There is skill in debate and sometimes you have to accept that a differing opinion has some merit and move on. Nobody is always correct all the time. You on the other hand seem to find it hard to accept that any opinion that differs from yours can be even slightly correct. Unlike TVOC you often use very spurious/superficial facts to justify your opinion.

If you are not careful you will have nobody to argue with and your opinions will be completely discarded by everyone as debating with is too much like hard work for what is a bit of entertainment after all.

Rugby is not life and death it is 26 men running round a field throwing and kicking a ball around

Never really paid homage but happy to pay respect.

Granted what some of what you say is correct. I know my opinion isn't always 'correct' but perhaps this advice should also be thrown at other posters.....not just the ones with an opposite view to yours.

I have no problem with the posters on here who can criticise in a healthy reasoned way, there is though clearly ones who go way OTT

For all the talk above of posters ramming opinions down people's throats repeatedly, not accepting others opinions (where as I get told to re-watch games or questioned as to having no rugby experience when I offer a different opinion) or being stubborn or hard to debate with.......I can think of some more guilty, but they have a similar view to you so escape your above speech.

Whose's the real one getting told they can't hold an opposing view???

Opinions are like @rseholes. We`ve all got one but if you insist on mooning it here on an open forum then expect a response.



I was taught at an early age ( by Ken Dalby IIRC ) that ANYONE and EVERYONE who pulls on a RL shirt at any level deserves your respect.

I have tried to hold to that ethos. So people who bitch moan and whinge about players and coaches sort of get up my nose a bit.

Only ever failed really on one occassion. ANYONE CARE TO GUESS WHICH ONE. ???

Fan of the players not the coach. What is wrong with having the OPINION that the coach isn't getting anywhere near the best out of the crop of outstanding players he has at his disposal? What is wrong with that?

Do you think McDermott is getting the best out of Super Leagues best ever back line? Or Leeds RLs best ever squad(According to GH)?

Our attack in its current state is abysmal.

And what is wrong with the opinion (no need to shout by the way) that recently it is the players that not been performing because of injuries that have upset our modes of play and a drop in form of some other key players. The coach who you assume is the cause of these factors is as frustrated as you are that errors and mistakes happen on the field and when the players don't stick to the game plan. I suppose you will also blame the coach when a goal kick is missed and for Sinfield's lack of discipline.

Absolutely nothing wrong...but if you post it on an open forum it will be challenged I guess.






A wee bit premature with that ejeculation IMHO it best judged at THE END OF THE SEASON . IMHO.

I feel McD plays his "game" cards very close to his chest and we could be playing Cas at Wembley dont forget and I figure he wants to keep them guessing a while.



I`m enjoying it ATM. I would like to see a few set plays though but I am Old School in that sense and the 10M rule makes it a bit more difficult, IMHO.

What ever happend to the WALL 1 and WALL 2 , SKIPPY and SLIDER , RABBITS, ROACH, PUNCH, POWER, SCOOTER, DOUBLEAONE, DOUBLE SIX, RED, BLUE, GREEN, MAD DOG, ZULU. TWO STEPS. SPLIT.

Opinion highlighted to take away the dramas, of been 'ashamed'. Ashamed over the opinion of a coach...hmm, a bit OTT!

You've got me mistaken if you think I'm part of a pathetic bunch that points blame every time a game is lost and every time we hit a rough patch, that I am not.

As stated previously I've not been 100% happy with McDermott during his term but have stayed away from this thread and other 'moaning' threads. But I've seen enough and voicing my opinion over it.

If you firmly believe that its part of drop in form and absentees in the side then fair enough, but Leeds have not been a great attacking side for many years and that will not change under McDermott.

And you sound like McDermott himself by the way. Why not heap praise on how well the opposition are doing against our immensely predictable attack whilst you're at it.

[Quote='The Printer' More likely he realised how foolish he looked challenging people to leave the board permanently because they didn't share his dislike of McDermott.'"

I do like to watch the opposition and give credit where its due. Cas where immense last week.

Appreciation of the other team makes watching a game that much more enjoyable....IMHO of course.

If I have you mistaken then I apologies. By the way you have me mistaken as I made no mention that you should be ashamed.



My point has been simple and consistent. I have never said BM is perfect or never makes a mistake, however I am sympathetic to the coaches position when their critics sally forth with OTT (not shouting by the way) opinions made without real knowledge of the circumstances.

When players hit poor form or make silly mistakes on the field, as they all do from time to time, is not the fault of the coach. To assume that these things are the coaches fault or that there is no structure or game plans or player rule or other such nonsense show a complete lack of understanding of the coaches role. Mac has coached the team to 2 championships a WCC and 2 Cup finals and has shown earlier in this season that we can produce a side that plays attractive rugby with attacking back play and resolute defence.

We have just been through a long spell without our two first choice hookers. In addition there have been other injuries and our leader and captain has been a lot off-colour. To pretend that these are not really important factors in our drop in performance is unreasonable. How many of those calling for Mac to be sacked would be happy if the same criteria were applied in their workplace and to their performance.

We're in a slump and McDermott has to turn it around, if we finish the season with silverware, most importantly the big one then he will have done a great job. If the slump continues and we finish with nothing they I think he will be out.

Surely the skill of a good manager is to get the best out of charges and ensure certain performance levels are maintained regardless of team content.

I see players that struggle to pass to the right, can't catch a high ball, can't pass from dummy half, can't read plays - if this is not what McDermott is employed to ensure basic technique is correct then what is his job?