I wasn't suggesting we could have Falloon and Aiton, just we could have retained Aiton for the same cost.

We lost two of the biggest earning players in the squad and probably in the league last season that should have freed up some cash towards squad strengthening.

If the club accepted regression that is a very dangerous game. How do you arrest the slide? There should never have been an acceptance of performance dip - if that doesn't lead to trophies so be it. Do you really think world class teams accept going backwards? No they are striving to move forwards in different ways.

The question should be where do we want to be 5 years time and what milestones need to be achieved to deliver that vision and what are the timing of those milestones. I would suggest improved youth development, recruitment and on the field performance are vital in that vision. If that requires structural changes including a new head coach so be it - if it doesn't OK. One thing is certain the current situation isn't delivering on any of those fronts.

Leeds form is dire, Brian's firing's justified

na na na na nanah nah

I think Peter Smith in the YEP is starting to see the problem the same way as many fans:

"Clearly something has to change, because carrying on regardless and simply expecting things to improve will not work. There is no indication anyone at the club knows what is going wrong or how to fix it."

If Peter Smith of the YEP ain't careful, GH will sack him.

Time for GH to check out Southstander. Plenty of answers here.

BMD needs his lucky rubber glove back.

The thing is that his press conferences instill no confidence and provide no answers. The Wigan game here - www.therhinos.co.uk/tv/brian-mcd ... K6xvkrK70- seems to say that the players are all knackered due to playing and 'tough' calls. Tough tough tough. Why do we refuse (Lunt aside) to go out and get a loan player or big signing mid-season? Is it an arrogance thing that we don't? Again, players don't turn garbage overnight.

The thing is that his press conferences instill no confidence and provide no answers. The Wigan game here - www.therhinos.co.uk/tv/brian-mcd ... K6xvkrK70- seems to say that the players are all knackered due to playing and 'tough' calls. Tough tough tough. Why do we refuse (Lunt aside) to go out and get a loan player or big signing mid-season? Is it an arrogance thing that we don't? Again, players don't turn garbage overnight.

i dont think Falloon is on that high a wage, but there is almost certainly a reason why he is only on a 1 year deal. Perhaps are real target wasnt available this season but is next?

I think the idea that not only could we replace Peacock and Sinfield is a tough ask, to do it immediately is even tougher. We cant go out and get the first available player and try and replace them. We will be constantly chasing our tail. We may need to wait a year for the right player to become available.

I dont think its co-incidence that we have a couple of players on only 1 year deals.

Have they, or has that period of incredible success been achieved off the back primarily of a core of high class young men who came to the club in the early 2000s? The quality of recruitment to supplement that core has tailed off spectacularly during that golden decade. Leeds have gone from signing players such as Ellis, Webb, Lauitiiti and Senior to the likes of Achurch, Falloon and Mullally.

Changes to the exchange rate and salary cap have meant that top quality antipodeans are no longer available, granted. However Leeds' recruitment - both in terms of players going straight into the first team and juniors coming through the system - has gone from Waitrose to Lidl in short order. Leeds have two players in the England Academy squad to play France. There are three other lads in that squad from community clubs in the Leeds area (one from Stanningley and two from Oulton) who have signed elsewhere (one at Bradford, two at Wakefield). How does that happen, that the biggest club in the area misses out on some of its top juniors?

Without his generals to lead in the heat of battle and play what's in front of them, McDermott's coaching has been shown up to be well below the required standards. There are coaches running around in the community game who can at least get a team to play to a shape and structure both with and without the ball. That appears to be entirely beyond Leeds at the moment. The contrast in performances between say Leeds and Wakefield at the Magic Weekend sums up the current malaise. It's apparent how much of Leeds' attacking potency in previous years has been reliant on an individual producing a moment of class. With those individuals sidelined, the simple basics of being able to complete a set or move a defence to where you want it to be have gone missing.

For a number of reasons - some out of their control but most not - Leeds are regressing at a spectacular rate to the point where you genuinely fear for their chances in the middle 8s. Something needs to be done with a degree of urgency, which will galvanise the club in the manner that Brian Smith's arrival did at Wakefield last year.

From 4 weeks back I always was of a mind that you would finish bottom 4, but of course have no concerns whatsoever of comfortably negotiating that hurdle and resuming your place in Super League for 2017. So part one of your transition period sorted.

However, having seen the levels of performance since then I'm having a shift of thinking.

It appears the issues are not only on the playing field, they are also running through the very fabric of the organisation.

I'm sure its not terminal, but it does appear that the battles ahead to retain your Super League status against Championship clubs will see them looking at the fixture against Leeds as one that is perfectly winnable. Something no one ever dreamt would be possible to say. How the mighty have fallen.

The Grand Finale to your season may yet be a far bigger hurdle than last years Grand Final.
For sure the Rugby League world will be watching with interest, perhaps amazement ??

We wait and see.

If we start behaving like Wakefield and making decisions like Wakefield, pretty soon we will be a club like Wakefield.

I think you need to take a look at performances and the league table, because we are doing a pretty good impression of Wakefield so far this year.

Yes, that's exactly what'll happen. Because the two clubs are exactly the same - financially, facilities, supporter base, every facet of their operations is entirely comparable.

Mind you, going from 12th to 6th in the space of half a season is probably something Leeds could do with aspiring to.

Yeah, 15 games doesnt discount 15 years.

NO, leeds should aspire to do more than that.

Why has this level incompetence you speak of won so many trophies including the historic treble only last season? Or are you suggesting that the culture and structures have done an about turn since Christmas and if so why?

You cannot guarantee that if Murray (or anyone else) were coach we would not have conceded nearly 92 points given the same circumstances this is pure speculation.

It could well be that it is time for a change and had our fall from grace happened with a full squad and full preseason training in place then you would have a stronger argument as you would have if he were solely responsible for the lack of quality recruitment. I believe that GH is responsible for recruitment.

But where you have a proven asset as a champion coach who produced his best and historic results for the club only last season, when he was coach of the year, to then to throw this away only on the evidence that we have had a disastrous first half of the season would be a huge and unnecessary risk. Especially if it were just to satisfy a bunch of impatient and unreasonable spectators who dismiss so lightly the obvious extenuating circumstances the coach has found himself from the very start of his preparations and which have continued throughout the season to date so that each week he cannot select a team until almost kick of time.

It was actually 10 players missing on Saturday. So if all were fit I would drop Handley for Hall, Golding for Briscoe, Watkins for Moon, Achurch for Ward, Walters for Ablett, Singleton for Delaney, L Briscoe for Burrow, Mullally for Garbutt, Hallas for Falloon, Hardaker for Sutcliffe.

But you are ignoring that it was HKR that sacked Chester so the tangible example is HKR who may now be regretting sacking Chester.

We agree that it was the club that made the mistake of not adequately replacing the roles of Sinfield and JP. But that is a player issue not a coaching issue unless you can prove the coach was responsible for the recruitment failures.

Quote ="krisleeds"The thing is that his press conferences instill no confidence and provide no answers. The Wigan game here - www.therhinos.co.uk/tv/brian-mcd ... K6xvkrK70- seems to say that the players are all knackered due to playing and 'tough' calls. Tough tough tough.'" Interestingly, in his press conference, BMcD listed all the injured players but (conveniently) left out Falloon's name. I wonder why?

Quote ="krisleeds"The thing is that his press conferences instill no confidence and provide no answers. The Wigan game here - www.therhinos.co.uk/tv/brian-mcd ... K6xvkrK70- seems to say that the players are all knackered due to playing and 'tough' calls. Tough tough tough.'" Interestingly, in his press conference, BMcD listed all the injured players but (conveniently) left out Falloon's name. I wonder why?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=595436&start=16



It was arguably Hull KR's excellent Challenge Cup run which kept Chester in that job in 2015. Their top eight target was missed and this time around they acted early and decisively - Chester himself had predicted his own demise when he said he was surprised to be only second favourite for the chop at Hull KR's pre season media event.

Your 1 from 5 includes the two games Willie Poching was in charge of before Webster's appointment - Webster's Hull KR won 2 from his first 5 including their biggest win V Leeds at Headingley both in terms of points scored and margin of victory not only in my lifetime but also in your lifetime, indeed it was Hull KR's highest score and biggest margin at Headingley ....... EVER.

Including today's defeat Webster is now 4 wins from 10 Regular Rounds as Hull KR coach while Leeds are 2 wins from the same. If you think Hull KR's record since changing coaches is not that great (and compared to Wakefield's I agree it's not) it's still 100% better than that achieved by Leeds who are sticking with theirs. If you class 4 from 10 as poor what does that make 2 from 10?



SL Regular Rounds in 2016

Chester at Hull KR = 1 point from 6 = 17%

Poching at Hull KR = 0 point from 4 = 0%

Webster at Hull KR = 8 points from 20 = 40%

McDermott at Leeds = 6 points from 30 = 20%

So with a bit of positional tinkering we would get something like:

Sutcliffe
Briscoe, Keinhorst, Moon, Hall
McGuire, Lilley
Galloway, Falloon, Cuthbertson
Ward, Ferres, Jones-Buchanan
Subs:
Burrow, Ablett, Delaney, Garbutt

Result with McDermott as coach 11th rather than 12th?

But getting rid of a proven Cup winner and current Coach of the Year is a much bigger risk. BM has had to endure a time without adequate training and preparation facilities and with half his main playing asset missing each week. On Saturday he still had 10 first teamers missing. Having had to endure these unusual handicaps for so long for the coach to be dumped now at a time when we should start to see a return of some of the injured stars would be most unfair as surely Mac has earned the time to enjoy the benefits of fielding a better team.




I think this is an area where the club (GH) has made serious errors. The team on paper may compare favourably when viewed with out past results but in reality since the leaders and play makers have retired and not been replaced adequately our strength in depth has been exposed. The signs were there last year just after the Cup final when it was clear some of the senior players were past their best days while others had been over valued. Our reserves in the main are not good enough so without half the first choices for an entire half a season it is no wonder we struggled against other sides that have recruited better. IMO Cas for example have better players in the key position than we do this year.



The common denominator in all this is the quality of players are not good enough especially if half of the best are unavailable. Remember Wakefield only improved since Smith departed!

If we were to sack BMcD tomorrow what detriment could it possibly have?

It's not we could get any worse now is it?

Agreed.

Being patronising towards the Wakefield club when your own club is totally house and bottom of SL by some distance and trailing them by TEN POINTS seems inappropriate to me.

Having said that, he's got plenty of previous WRT Wakefield, bordering on obsessive bile.

Leeds are the best run club in Super League.

Allegedly.