Worst Leeds player this season has been Watkins, followed very closely by Hall.

I don't think Roosters and Leeds is a good comparison because the Roosters would walk it in Super League with or without Mitchell Pearce. They were bottom of the NRL last week because there are plenty of other NRL teams who are as good or better than them.

I've already argued on another thread that Newcastle are the weakest NRL team by some distance yet even they'd still give SL a huge shake. Their halfbacks are better than any combo in SL as well.

Discipline had very little to do with Friday's defeat. It's a symptom of the pressure we are putting ourselves under.
We failed to put any pressure on Hudds on attack, doesn't matter how you defend if you can't attack effectively and we haven't been able to attack with anything resembling structure, pattern or skill all season. It's a total shambles when we get in the opposition red zone.
Anderson would have been livid with the soft tries Hudds conceded on Friday. Burrow's try was unforgivable defence, Walters try wasn't much better. I guess that's why they were the bottom of the league until we played them. Fact is Hudds we're miles better than us with the ball. They were very unlucky with two video ref decisions - one was wrong, the other was probably offside by 18 inches at most. They were also held up over the line 2 or 3 times. Our scramble defence was actually very good, Keinhorst saved at least 2 certain tries (he reminds me very much of Darryl Powell - hits and sticks like a limpet).
If we hadn't defended so well and Hudds had been more clinical with the chances they created we would have been buried by half time.
We have to get our running lines sorted. We had guys all over the place getting in the way of plays, overrunning passes and so flat that only perfect passes were gong to stick - and there were not many of those. Still when we get inside the opposition 10 we run the big lads back into the middle play after play. It's clueless, but nothing else seems to be possible.

Worst season I've seen. Unforgivable when you factor in we are champions and CC holders. Defending this year's effort is rediculous. I'm not going to lose sleep over it and I'm not going to rant about the players, who I'm sure are working hard. But this season has flushed down the u bend like the steaming brown log that it is.

You see i have to disagree with that. In attack the only team creating things was us. Hudds plan was nothing more than 5 tackles and a Brough bomb. The fact we were still in it is testament to great scramble defence but also how unimaginative Hudds were. They rarely looked like getting over the line unless on the back of repeat sets.

Hudds squeeked past us in a game we straight dropped 4 (at least) kicks, and must have knocked on-on the first tackle another 3 or 4 times. We cant give teams that advantage, and they arent mistakes that come from structure or an expansive game plan or even forced errors, its just poor play from young players who are learning at this level.

We can stop making those errors, and if we do, we win last week and probably against saints as well.

I actually think going back to last year Ablett would also be up their as worst player. I just think as a collective the pack have been really bad, and if they had been slightly better we'd be a lot better off points wise. Not saying individual backs haven't been bad but as mismatched group they have been less disappointing.

I don't disagree they would walk it, I was talking more as a comparison within their relative competition. The Roosters are a team that generally contend who were having to play two very young halves who well rated were struggling, they had a number of other young or fringe players playing and we're without a pack leader and found themselves at the wrong end of the table.

Newcastle are plain bad, their team has no star power, not saying they'd be bad over here,that wasn't my point, my point was the NRLS standard also seems to have dropped.

Can't see things getting much better for the Knights with Simms likely to join Mullen for a spell in the stands.

Really? Apart from the 4 they scored, the two they had chalked off by the video ref and the 2-3 times we managed to hold them up in goal.

Why miss of the 2nd part of that sentence?

Yeah convientely left off. It wasn't like they were going (or we were making them go) 80/90m to get to our try line. Dropped kicks in our own 20m, knock ons, and penalties that piggy backed them 30/40m upfield. We actually made more metres than them on the night but those mistakes above meant we did 60 more tackles. We led in the last quarter but that extra defending we did seems to take its toil.

It was conveniently added on in the first place, a transparent excuse. Hudds moved the ball better, they forced mistakes and won penalties, some of which they exploited. That's what the better team tends to do in a game of rugby league.

Yes I know that's what the better team tend to do in a game of rugby league. I also know in some games the mistakes and penalties teams concede are mostly off their own unnecessary fault without the opposition forcing them which is what Friday was IMO. We lost that game rather than Hudds won it and Smokey is right, Hudds were unimaginative in attack but we gifted them enough good starting field position that they eventually could get over a couple of times near the end against a tired defence who made themselves do too much work earlier in the game.

Is this the line re Lilley's kicking you didn't like:


Lilley's first pressure kick (IMO) which he missed. Saying some Leeds fans 'may have to reconsider' still feels a reasonable comment to make at that time - it's not as if I implied the current best player in the world is a different person when off camera.

So Leeds let in another 5 tries. I'd argue all of them could have been stopped. I've said before, the team just don't look committed in defence as a unit, and I'm with those holding senior players far more guilty than any of the youngsters.

We will never find out how good Lilley, Golding et al are until they get half a chance in a non-garbage team. FWIW I like the look of Lilley though, and I don't think he's as slow as some suggest.

So are you saying I misread where posters said if McGuire had played we would have won? If we had a full side out we walk this etc. Nobody more adept at this than you - something you don't like being pointed out. We have lost 5 games by 4 points if we had won those we would be in challenging for the top 4 - that's one of yours!! Nothing like stating the bloody obvious!!

No that's not one of mine. I said we should've won 4 more games this year than what he have done (mainly the Easter ones)....once again your 'fantastic' reading skills strike!

Professional sport is a results driven business - happy to be accused of stating the bleeding obvious here - Leeds' results are in danger of leading them out of top flight if they can't turn them around. Just as nobody should really care about the margin of victory, there is no comfort and certainly no points to be had from a defeat no matter by how narrow a margin. A defeat is a defeat - no amount of excuses or even valid reasons will change that. Yet to win away from home in 2016, yet to win more than one in a row - if the season continues as it has to this point .... well it's over and being the butt of every other supporter's jokes awaits.

I didn't say Hudds were great, just that they were better than us.

You don't have to see much of Lilley and Hardaker taking place kicks to work out which is the natural kicker and which is not. Or indeed which is the natural play-maker. So I would say some Leeds fans may have to reconsider their opinions of the young half back.

Are you on medication

Reading your posts is enough to drive anyone to the pill bottle - fortunately I am made of stronger stuff

A number of reasons we lost that game, lack of commitment in defence wasn't one of them.



He isn't I agree. Also don't think it's right that Lilley is the HB that's having to switch which side he's defending on during the game. Burrow defends left, Sutcliffe right, with Lilley alternating during games much like McGuire did/does. Surely with his size and less experience he should be on the right next to the winger, Burrow likewise on the left side and Sutcliffe with more size and more experience than Lilley should be alternating sides 3rd man in.

You don't half speak a lot of perspicacity at times



Of the two (Lilley and Golding) I am now of the persuasion Lilley is the more likely to make a success of it. In addition to the attributes others have pointed out I love his fearlessness when going for the line - both close in and from distance. He has ducked and rode a few clouts in both cases (and if only the out of form Watkins would race up in support in the RC position, instead of the willing but hopeless RW we now have playing there, who knows what better outcomes we might get).

Fundamentally though the league position doesn't lie: as a team we are still incontrovertibly crap.

At that point I'd seen Burrow, Sutcliffe and Hardaker kick multiple goals for Leeds and I rated them in that order. I'm the first to admit I'd not seen Lilley outside of 1st grade and after the clutched attempt V North Queensland Cowboys he still had everything to prove at this level.

Indeed with regards play-making, didn't realise that had been under discussion, likewise which is the better defender or better poacher or safer under the bomb etc.

The reason I suspect McDermott shifted Lilley from right side early to left was that faced with Ta'ai he had already shown himself to be both clueless and useless for the first Huddersfield try. Defending Lilley with Burrow on the left is just plain crazy though.

It's been a while but the sooner we get back to defending second row, half back, centre, winger on either flank the sooner we bring consistency and understanding both with ball in hand and without and challenge players to develope in areas they are lacking. There is no hiding place in League anyway so why do we try to hide weaker defenders instead of challenging them to improve. If they don't improve to at least be able to work within the unit they should be stood down and sent away until they can. There are two aspects to the game and both can help to win you the game.

Will Bennett be selecting half-backs for England who can't stand up defensively and hiding them outside the centre? I very, very much doubt it.

But then Lilley moved back to the right again, and then left etc. Sometimes only for a set as happens most games. Can't be an easy thing to do even for an experienced guy like McGuire, asking Lilley to do it a dozen games into his career is asking too much IMO. Granted Sutcliffe isn't massively experienced himself in the grand schemes of things but he must still have about 60/70 more games than Lilley under his belt and as I mentioned before easily more size to stand a better chance with 2nd rows/centres attacking him as 3rd defender in.

Bennetts current 6 is Milford, hardly a rock in defence is he?

Milford and Hunt know what's expected of them defensively and who is in their unit inside and out, that doesn't typically change bar the interchange of a second-rower. Set defence is rarely if ever a solo pursuit, working together as a unit will allow for better cohesion and understanding, with and without the ball. McNamara defended his England halves using this formation V the Kiwis, cannot imagine Bennett won't continue. His options may be increased and England's chances, such as they are, improved if players (or coach - although I don't see this happening) didn't need to make these adjustments.