Not big and not clever.

the refs like it because it allows cowards like Silverwood to avoid making decisions or worse look for a reason to deny trys. Silverwood came into the game with a clear agenda and was able to influence the result. The Rfl will be happy that wigan are kept in contention

its not supposed to be, but Karma is a bitch and Silverwood is a (unt.

No problem at all with the VR. Overall it does a very good job in determining whether a try is legal or not.

Where I do have a problem is asking the on-field ref to guess first, thereby influencing the way the VR looks at it. They should just be allowed to make their own mind up based on the evidence in front of them.

That was Wigan at full strength, needing to win, and playing at 'fortress' DW. With some appalling decisions thrown in for good measure.

I'm not concerned in the slightest.

Calm down, lad. It's disappointing but, there's no need to wish harm on the bloke like that.

Disappointing performance by the on field officials and video ref's tonight, there should be some good learning when they do the review at Red Hall. Very proud of the way Leeds went about the job without complaint, and the measured and dignified way Mac and Rob conducted themselves during interview.
We had the moral high ground, this match will not matter in the end, and all neutrals watching will know who really won, despite the score.
Bring on the play off's !!!

Sums it up very well. I would add that we shouldn't take the ref having a stinker personally. Some times the team or individual players have a howler, tonight Silverwood proved that so do the officials. As you say the Rhinos took in on the chin.

Fully agree AG. If the ref isn't sure and refers to the VR then he should not comment and all issues should be looked from the last PTB in my opinion. There is an argument for both captains to have 2 challenges like tennis and cricket which would avoid this sort of senario where bad refereeing has a major say in a result.

In this case the ref had ruled no try so had there been no VR then the try would have been ruled out anyway.

I can't fault out effort, could fault one or two individuals decisions at some points but other than that, we didn't deserve that loss.

The biggest disappointment is the way we have come to expect and to an extent now accept how poor the refereeing can be, I would never suggest rugby league is corrupt, but if someone new to the game watched that game and saw the 'knock on by leeds' in the first half just before the wigan try for example, I'm pretty sure they'd think there was some bias or something socially wrong with the ref.

Bit of a hasty decision. He has little experience at FB but has the attacking abilities as he showed last week when subbing for the sin binned ZH. Watkins is a bit of an enigma and sometimes seems to not be mentally switched on - tonight was one of those times and he would have been poor at centre too IMO. It is not certain that ZH would have stopped O'Loughlin anyway.

its not like this is an aberration from Silverwood though is it. I think every Leeds fan predicted how he would ref against us. Hes from Mirfield and has made numerous comments in the past to the effect he doesnt like leeds RL and our fans in particular and still has a massive grudge following his 'standing down' by the RFL a couple of years ago. There was nothing accidental about that performance.

I think that there is something wrong when you get the same referee in consecutive weeks.
But it could have been worse it could have been Child or Bentham.
Why do we seem to rarely get reffed by Thaler?

Assuming this is a reference to the McGuire 'no try' it was noticed enough by the on-field officials to send it up as a no try.

That said I agree with Gilder when he says having the on-field officials effectively guessing in these situations adds very little credibility albeit it does generally speed up the review process.

I just can't take people seriously who say refs are bent, or the results of games are pre-determined. If you really believe that, why bother watching? I thought it was a terrific contest tonight, and much more open than I expected. Some great footy from both sides (which was far from guaranteed after our dismal effort against Wire), and as for that penalty; yes, it was a pen, to the letter of the law, but they're often let go, and if I was a Leeds fan I'd probably feel a bit hard done by. Still, I'm very happy with what I feel is a deserved win. They are are all union fans in the pubs down here, and everyone who watched said how much they enjoyed the game, and how exciting it was.

Your coach called a ref bent a few weeks ago.

Just on the forcing the ref to make a decision thing; I've been used to seeing it in the NRL and was in favour of its introduction into SL. But, funnily enough, it seems to have brought up so many incidents this year, both here and in Oz, that I'm actually changing my mind about it now.

Yes, and more fool him for speaking like that, however literally he meant it. I stand by my comment.

Maybe i was a little over emotional.....but i do honestly believe the video ref creates more controversy than it solves. There seems to be no consistency when to call for it and it still more often boils down to subjective opinions. It most definitely detracts from the excitement of the moment and to have such exciting flowing rugby repeatedly scrutinised for technical infringements is not healthy for the spectator sport it is meant to be.

I have stated elsewhere it was a cracking match with some lovely footy from both sides and a draw would have been a fair result. Such is sport. Funny how your lads always seem to be written off on your forum the week before they play Leeds.....? Williams always seems to get stick but whenever i see him (against Leeds ) he looks to be a real star in the making ...your much maligned forwards also stood up.
Cuthbertson is still head and shoulders above any though....and if Garbutt had made it you would def have lost....maybe.

Calling for the VR to check if Handley was onside was a complete joke. The guy was 8 metres behind the kicker.
I notice he didn't ask them to check if Farrell was onside when Burgess kicked through which must have been much tighter.
But he did ask to check if Bowen was onside when he scored.
What I don't understand is why the VR can't intervene when there has been a clear error as there was for the Smith knock on?
Surely the VR is there to correct errors?
They do that in RU.
Lost balls are always a lottery & usually a guess.
Strip or loose carry?
50/50, I wouldn't mind if for the sake of consistency the call always went in favour of the attacking side but it doesn't, yet it's nearly always a guess.

Never been keen on this new ref sending it upstairs as a try/no try scheme. You don't know if he's 90% confident, 70% confident or it's a 50/50 guess. Too often under this new way it seems like the VR is trying to do his job with one hand tied behind his back by this new system. I've seen a few this year were the VR seems to have wanted to give the opposite decision but has felt inclined to go with the ref's call. Seemed like how many times he viewed the one tonight was like he perhaps wanted to go try but couldn't because of the on-field no try.

Their should at least be a third signal he could make at times when he's really not sure and defers making a judgment call and it's completely in the VR's opinion.

Also, surely Ben Thaler has to ref both the CC and Grand Finals whoever gets there. He's the only one good enough.

Oh but they do intervene when it suits.The Makeinson try in the GF when it was 50/50 wether he knocked on before grounding it being a prime example.

Noticed but not pulled for a penalty- which is another issue with the VR system, you can be better off not scoring sometimes! (eg if you get tackled short and then score on the next play)

Fully agree. The most annoying thing about this is If Silverwood thought no try because of obstruction he should have called it during the play.Otherwise, he sends it upstairs as a try with the possibility of obstruction because like you say, had say Cuthbertson died with the ball, played it and Mcguire dived over the try would have to stand.I feel try would have been awarded had it gone upstairs as a T-R-Y, and rightly so.The obstruction rule needs checking again for syre, but also the refs need educating too on how they consult the VR.