It just comes back to what many people said all along, that it's the team and not the finishing position.

If leeds had finished 5th this year (as some people cheekily suggest they should want to do in the final weeks of the season) they'd probably have been going away to saints instead of home, and looking at last nights game how that would have been any better I don't know.

The problem is that some have spent so long writing the Leeds team off that when they're proven wrong they can't be mature enough to say "ok I was wrong". They have to scramble for excuses for why their prediction didn't come true and try to downplay the success to shift the spotlight away from their erroneous calls.

I think everybody on here likes to be right with their opinions, just some can't accept when they're wrong.

I'm wondering if any will join in this thread with some classic reasons and excuses for why the playoffs have turned out this way in 2013.

Speaking off playoffs.

In the all mighty NRL the team finishing 7th place Newcastle Knights have just reached the final 4 after beating 3rd place Melbourne (WCC indeed

). This after finishing 11 points behind the League Leaders and not winning a single game against the top 4 during the regular season.......joke of a league!

Cam Smith & Billy Slater for Golden Boot

William Eve?

AWOL


Come out, come out wherever you are

You're batting on a sticky wicket here. One defeat in eliminator or GF, whether it's in 2013 or 2023, and they'll have been proved right.

You won't see him for a while.

He'll no doubt reappear in a different guise. He didn't want to commit last week to Saints winning from fifth when he realised the mighty Rhinos stood in their path!

Not really, it's already come to pass. The theory was that Leeds only won in the 2nd week because they had an easy 1st week match and took momentum with them and 4th place couldn't regroup after a convincing defeat.

Last week's week two results can now be added to the previous four seasons.

On the face of it had St Helens possessed a reliable goal-kicker or even drop-goal kicker we probably wouldn't even be seeing such a thread this week. Such small margins change little.

It has to be assumed that over time clubs will form plans developed on past experiences - both good and bad. Both Tony Smith and Brian McDermott have acknowledged this recently - Smith after the defeat of Leeds in week one and McDermott prior to the regular season end where he said Leeds had made plans for the Play-Offs that were dependant on their eventual finishing position.

[uWhen Leeds finished 5th[/u
Occasions = 2
GF appearances = 2
GF wins = 2
Success % = 100%
Played/Won/Lost = P8 W8 L0
Win % = 100%

[uWhen Leeds finish 3rd and 4th[/u
Occasions = 2
GF appearances = 0
GF wins = 0
Success % = 0%
Played/Won/Lost = P5 W2 L3
Win % = 40%

What happened? I thought if you finished 3rd or 4th it was an easier ride than finishing 5th? By finishing 3rd, Leeds have ended up having to play 3 really tough play-off fixtures against more credible SL opposition with the tough 3rd game in a row proving to be one tough game too many and several Leeds players absolutely shattered and busted.

Compare and contrast to Leeds finishing 5th and the more leisurely ride it provided them in the first two weeks of the play-offs and easy peasy games against whipping boy SL rabble. No such leisurely ride has been provided as a consequence of finishing 3rd or 4th.

So, 3rd and 4th is better than finishing 5th?

Really?

Tonight's loss meant Leeds failed to reach the GF, but it somehow cements what they did in 2011 & 2012 as being a crafty utilisation of the advantages to be gained from tactically and deliberately finishing 5th when in reality you are a top 4 team.

Lesson to be learned?

5th by plenty!

Such a shame Leeds appear to have forgotten that lesson this season.

Come on Jeff, be real. Leeds best chance this year, as a few people suspected (and obviously now shown with hindsight) was to win in week one and get the week off. If they'd finished 5th they'd still have played every week, they'd have still have had the humdinger last week with saints (away from instead) and they'd have still been battered tonight.

Just wasn't to be this year but tremendous effort nonethless. Nice to see wigan put paid to this finish 4th and a week off = doomed bollox as well.

A 5th placed Leeds against a beaten up 3rd or 4th placed Saints last week would have been an easy ride for Leeds after the cakewalk the week before at home to Hull KR. They'd have gone into tonight's game fresh as opposed to being busted and we'd all be planning another Rhinos trip to Old Trafford next week.

5th by plenty

I love it how Mr Eve underlines things. It's cute.

You know that's not true.

[u% of wins by finishing position under this crazy Top 8 play-off system[/u
1st = 64%
2nd = 60%
3rd = 33% <------------ how can this be so low?------------


4th = 30% <------------ how can this be so low?------------


5th = 79%
6th = 50%
7th = 17%
8th = 29%

5th by plenty.

Sinfield engineered a 4th place finish because he knew that would allow leeds to get within one game of old trafford but go down fighting nonethless. This would then allow the current golden boot winner a valuable couple of weeks off (without losing too much match sharpness) in preperation for when the [ireal[/i season kicks off with england.

Welcome back Bill.
Where have you been all week?

And proved right we were



5th by plenty.

Keep it up Billy, this is funny...

Yes, Wigan have reached the GF, Saints haven't. Leeds got to within 80mins of the GF, Saints didn't.

Other playoff myths dispelled this year.
- one if not both week 1 Top 4 losers would fall the 2nd week to a 'team with momentum'.
- the 2 teams who had the week off would suffer for it.
- clubcall is a poisoned chalice.

Surprising considering the flawed format guarantees the above to all happen. Why couldn't Hudds (2011) & Catalans (2012) reach the GF from 4th, Wigan have shown it to be possible.

Have Leeds missed out on the GF because of league placing? No, people can over-evaluate the club after last night, but quite straight forward we had too many injuries (does happen in sport apparently), simple as that. A cleaner bill of health and think we'd have reached Old Trafford again, from 3rd, 4th or 5th.

Under this current flawed format

Teams finishing 1st and 2nd have won 18 from 29 fixtures - 62%

=#0000FFTeams finishing 3rd and 4th have won 7 from 22 fixtures - 32%

Teams finishing 5th and 6th have won 16 from 24 fixtures - 67%

Teams finishing 7th and 8th have won 3 from 13 fixtures - 23%

And you can break it down properly.

Out of the 24 5th/6th placed matches....
Vs 7th & 8th - 8 wins from 10 = 80%.....matches they should be expected to win.

Vs higher ranked teams - 8 from 14 = 57%
Ones involving Leeds - 6 from 6 = 100%
Ones not involving Leeds - 2 from 8 = a mere 25%

As somebody who shouted out loud this year that 5th was better than 4th can you tell me what positions Wigan and Manly finished this year to reach their GF's???

It is already broken down properly and highlights why I would rather enter the play-offs from 5th or 6th than 3rd or 4th. I would rather start the Play-Offs with a home match against weaker opponents than be involved in a much tougher encounter away from home.

I can perfectly accept others may take a different view and it is their right to do so. It would appear Leeds have fared much the better following my route than the alternative.



Why are these '=#FF0000matches they should be expected to win' anymore to be expected than when a team finishing in 5th or 6th has to travel to a team that finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th in week two or week three or meet a higher ranked team in the GF - why is that?

Explained by yourself earlier in that post.