Does he really fit GH 'seniority' description?

GH could spin anything to fit his criteria. ‘Novice’ in his eyes possibly means never coached at first team level so Carr fits his narrative nicely given he did so well at Fev and assisted Agar for a time here whilst still coaching Fev so knows the club a bit so not a complete stranger. I think Carr impressed the powers that be during his brief spell assisting here and there were rumours of the arrangement becoming more permanent before he went home for his Wife’s career

Ryan Carr is my preference so id be happy with it.

Knows the club, has a lot of respect, and wants to further his career.

Carr would be ideal but whoever it is they have to be allowed to build his own team and culture and that means the removal of all the dead wood - JJB, Davidson, Bletsoe, Long, Chev, Butterill etc

Unless we have a clean break from the past the shambolic output from the club will continue as it has since 2015

Carr would be 2 on my list, so cant complain.

Had Fev TV subscription ever since our duel reg, So watched every game of his Fev tenure, they were a very well coached team with a clear plan, massive emphasis on dropping players off on inside angles, forcing defenders to make 2/3 tackles a set.

The last thing the club should be doing is getting rid of Butterill.

Agreed on Long and JJB, a young coach like Carr certainly dosnt need JJB hovering around in the background for a few reasons imo and Longs just useless at his job, only reason needed.

I doubt whoever the new coach is he will change the backroom staff in the short term if im honest.

But as Matt says getting rid of Butterill shouldnt be on anyones agenda.

One of the problems the club has had is the development of young players - they get the pick of the youngsters in west yorks yet seldom do any progress to the standard we need - when was the last time the club produced a SL standard half back, hooker or loose forward? Butterill has been around youth development at Leeds for years and as such has to shoulder some of the blame for this.

Part of the stagnation of the team in recent years is down to the lack of youth development - things need to change surely?

Not sure about that. The club continues to produce excellent young players who then seem to struggle to maximise potential on joining the senior coaching set up. That's on the JJB's, Walker's, Long's and Agar's. Would be silly to throw out the baby with the bath water.

The problem hasn't been the development of young players, it's been the transition into the first team and maintaining the development. I'd say this has gone back years (Sutcliffe the perfect example, Stevie Ward - whilst being quality wasn't developed into the player he could have been, you could even question if Watkins reached the levels we expected).

Johnson is a quality hooker. Smith is a quality loose (if he switches on his brain a bit more), granted there's been a lack of half, but that could be down to who we could attract.

Not disputing there need to be changes in the club, but there doesn't need to be an over reaction and total clean out. There are some good things going on which shouldn't be over shadowed by the poor performance further up in the club.

And Butterill is a quality bloke with the right ethos and mindset to the game. He's the perfect person to shape you players

Butterill does his job and does it extremely well, players regularly leave our scholorship regarded as among the best players in the country, the start of this season has been an outliner, because throughout his tenure his teams have beat everybody convincingly and the players have looked very good doing it. An example that springs to mind is Brad Martin, iv rarley seen a better 2nd row prospect coming out of Scholorship, he was exceptional, got to academy and just didnt kick on atall.

The problems with development have started once they leave Butterill and get to Academy and first team level imo, some of our players look more intelligent rugby players at 16 than they do at 18 and god knows what goes on with our S+C at Academy level.

Some of the time its not the clubs fault, as simple as this sounds, at times players just dont have the growth spurts needed, the pack containing Hird, Parsons, Watten, Atkinson, Gibbons, Wallace were brilliant at Scholorship, big and full of Skill, but 3 seasons later, none of them look much taller than they did at 16, certainly not compared to the players they played against at 16, Parsons has had a long term injury...Injury also has a bearing, we couldnt really have worse luck, if our best Juniors arnt injury prone then they're not a proper Leeds Junior.

How many teams have produced top class halves, hookers at 13s in recent years?

Dodd and Lewis are only 2 halves. No hookers at all.

I think we over hype the Young players we go get through. JJB is already talking about Newman as ‘international class’, and Gannon as a ‘superstar’. No they are not. Nowhere near. Are both promising young players and that should be enough. We’ve seen what can happen to young talent (Ward, Sutty, Broadbent )…..even Holroyd currently ……

None of us have a clue how these people perform in their day to day tasks. They may leave, they may not but it's just silly to demand their removal from such a position of ignorance.

I actually agree with this. The days of teenagers coming into profesional open age rugby and being superstars on a regular basis are long gone.

Their job is to produce a top class side that performs to its potential - even Stevie Wonder can see that is not happening - we don't need to see the intracacies of the day to day - the outputs are there for all to see - Leeds are second bottom of a very average SL. If a business was losing money do you pat the directors on the back because they are doing the day to day - grow up please

Surely taking young players from outstanding young players at amateur clubs to the professional level is what youth development is all about - how much development input is Butterill actually having and how much is the work of the amateur clubs and the players natural talent? You are saying its the senior development - at what age do they go into that 17 - so how much influence does Butterill actually have? They maybe great at 16 but realistically how much of that is down to the Rhinos and how much is down to East Leeds, Oulton, Parkside etc.

Johnson has yet to prove anything at senior level and Smith is a very poor mans Morgan Smithies or Morgan Knowles - please be realistic about players and their abilities

They aren't the directors, they are the employees. Some of them relatively low-level at that. Sorry if your simplistic, context-free "sack everyone" dirge isn't finding much favour amongst us grown ups.

A business losing money doesn’t mean everything and everyone in the organisation is bad.

Im not an expert but i presume the outstanding young kids at amateur are playing the outstanding young kids from amateur. As we see, it's not as if players just join their local professional team so there's decent competition that he gets his team playing well in.

He's the one heading up the coaching at 15 and 16. Then they go to the Academy where we've had a host of former players shoehorned in. The difference with Butterill is that he's come through the amateur game and learnt his trade. He understands the link between amateur and the pros and starts that transition off. I'm not convinced we've had the continuation at Academy (except for Rob). It seems to be something we struggle with generally over here and I've always wondered why the Aussies are so much better at it. But Saints seem to be excelling at it too now.

I agree that we have players with potential and who are yet to reach the standards of others elsewhere. But I'm not convinced the problem is at scholarship level. My point was that we have players in those positions who could go on to be top quality. I don't know if they'll be managed in the right way to achieve it

No it doesn't but it does indicate that the people at the top aren't doing a great job and perhaps its time for a change

The top players will rise to the top, don’t worry about that…..

So are you saying JJB, Long, Walker are low level employees? This is a sports club these are key people - this club has been in decline since 2015 - how long do you persist with the same group - perhaps that is a bit too grown up a concept for you to grasp.

The changes needed in this club are radical a bit like when Graham Murray came - this culture cannot evolve into something approaching the professionalism of Saints with the current set up.

Would that be the same Graham Murray who retained all of the existing coaching staff and had the previous head coach still at the club working in the background?

Two things are certain. 1 whoever gets the job wont be at Graham Murray's level (sorry Zoo Zoo) and secondly those of us who was lucky to be Leeds fans at that time will never forget it.

The way that bloke united the whole club and made everybody feel they was part of it was unbelievable.

Prior wouldnt have been doing 3 carries for 13 metres under Muzza i know that much lol.