I too don't understand why Sutcliffe is getting so much flack. If the pack gave his some kind of platform that'd be a start. Whilst I don't personally see him as a 6 he's all we've got at the moment and he's a lot on his plate. Whilst Brough might be a (very) short term solution I'd sooner we didn't bother

Nothing to worry about. I doubt he's coming to us. Strong(er) rumours that he's off back to Hull FC

Are you kidding or something, just to defend him? We are higher than our oppossition each game for metres made from the pack. Have you seen how many times this lad continually runs into the defence and takes the tackle? surely you are not suggesting the pack are at fault for that? Many times we have an overlap and he chooses not to pass. His tackling on top of this is absolutely woeful. I suggest you watch him personally next time.

Bullsh##! Its far from many times he has an overlap 2/3 times max it was on yesterday but no more than the ones Zak or Burrow have butchered on many more occasions.
In virtually EVERY game it's blatant the plan is pass to Burrow or Zak on 5th and how many times has he got it when it's been a hospital ball on the 5th or even yesterday on 2 occasions he went at the line and had a chance of an offload with no support whatsoever.
Also with our complete lack of structure how many quality options has he or Lilley had in a set of 6?
He's made mistakes it will happen he's still learning but it'd help if he actually had help and some structure/leadership around him he more than proved it last year give him the tools and he's more than capable.

Spot on. In most of our games we've had enough field position near the opposition line to score anywhere between 12-24 more points than we have done yet we haven't and it mostly falls on poor play from Sutcliffe and Burrow.

on a side note, anybody see the try scored by Cas last night off the beautiful, but simple little dab through near the line by Luke Gale? we seem to never take this option near the line, so frustrating because when executed it at least leads to repeat sets and more pressure or even a lovely try like last night.Our last play options have been absolute dire for weeks now and it looks like nothing is being done to rectify it.

I'd put Zak in there before Sutcliffe every time especially when he consistently runs sideways taking any kind of space Moon or Watkins would have should he pass.
As for Burrow he IGNORES 99% of the plays either Sutty/Lilley are trying call or the move we have set up for.

I think the pivots as a group aren't firing at the moment. Against Castleford Sutcliffe was screaming for the ball on the 5th and Falloon went down the short side with nothing on and he did the exact same thing yesterday when Burrow was calling for it to go for the winning drop goal.

Burrow and Sutcliffe are both too prone to running when it isn't on and aren't organising our attack leading our forwards to not run any viable lines to create time and space.

Hardaker looks like he is trying too hard. He isn't an extraordinary ball player but keeps getting involved in our last tackle plays and putting in ineffectual kicks. His passing is also poor but he's not getting much to work with to be fair.

They as a group need to sit down and work out who should be doing what because right now our attacking shape is a complete mess and it is costing us massively.

Sutcliffe needs to stand slightly deeper IMO. He should also hold back on the dropping the shoulder and throwing the dummy close to the line and instead use it further out when defenders are more likely to be moving laterally and the line less straight. That way some of those almost moments could well be transformed into line breaks. My view that he'll develop into a really good player remains unchanged. Brough OTOH would be a huge gambler.

Oops, meant to say gamble.

Is this the same as how Brierly was on his way too?

Can but hope.

The halves aren't playing well. They're not creating AND they're not leading and directing. This can somewhat be understood from young halves but is very disappointing from Burrow.

I also agree that Sutcliffe takes the ball in too often instead of passing. However, I think a significant part of the blame for this lies in the lack of runners the halves have to choose to pass to. Most of the time our lack of runners are giving our halves only 2 options:
1 - a simple pass to an already marked player who isn't going particularly fast or running a particularly good line.
2 - take the ball in themselves.

Our outside runners are few in number, running poor/non-existent lines and not going fast enough.

Whilst the halves are currently poor we aren't giving them any options.

Brough would be a great signing for you without a doubt
Although it wouldn't be a popular one

I think there is something in this. Our style of play, where the line is flat and the early receivers all get the ball standing still must make trying to create very hard work when a team has no real go forward or quick PTB. Because no runners are coming onto the ball the tendency of a ball player will be to either keep it rather than give a hospital pass or go sideways.

Not buying that bull. Sutcliffe has been pinpointed as Sinfield's successor. He's failed badly. Yet the coach picks him week after week. You believe Brough wouldn't do a better job? You're on your own.

Can't remember a game when any leeds forward ran an attacking line never mind a dummy run line ,that's why we can't create space for Watkins and he gets clattered every time he gets the ball.

The earliest ball Watkins gets is when he has to drive it in on 2nd tackle after a deep kick from opposition. Last year, when Aiton went crabbing right he got Watkins into space but with our current struggles he and moon end up doing prop like drives

Totally agree but why do we try to play the same systems week after week when clearly it's not working . We must have the best attacking centres in superleague one of the best wide runners and ball handlers in ferres but these type of players are getting destroyed by using them as prop forwards.Surely the coaching staff and players have a big enough skill set to alter the systems,or have they?

There was a point on Moday when Sutcliffe was shouting at Garbutt and Cuthbertson and gesturing them to step back to make their movements more of an option and neither of them moved, when he got the ball the defence were already in his face.
There was another moment vs Cas when we broke and Sutcliffe was calling for it open (probably looking to put in a crossfield kick as he did vs Saints last year) but the ball went blind where the defence had already numbered up.

The problems are not solely in the halves (though they need to be more aware of the tackle count)
If that had happened to danny brough hed be likely to start fight with his own team mates!

Interesting that the Roosters are having the same problem with young halfbacks - who after the WCC were being lauded as being of a standard SL can't produce, and yet now are both shot. Similarly they seem to be waiting for their experienced halfback to return (Pearce).

If we're being honest here the problem at halfback isn't Sutcliffe or Lilley, its Burrow. In McGuire's absence he should have been able to step up and take over responsibility for running the team. As it is he's been found wanting and dumped back to bench hooker.

Lilley and Sutcliffe simply don't have years of experience to draw on to be able to grind out performances when the team is down. What you'd expect to see is them giving cameos of increasing length as the season progresses. Dumping them in at the deep end when others are clearly out of form is a massive ask.

FWIW I still think Sutcliffe could well be the part in the long-term, so long as he can learn his trade alongside a decent partner.

I would also add that I have been disapointed in Falloon, a hooker should be an organisor as well and dictate where the play moves and often when the time is right to send in a forward or get the ball outwide. When we needed a drop goal he sent play away from the sticks on the 4th tackle meaning we couldnt go for it and then decided to throw a hospital pass instead of trying to force a repeat set.
Maybe all tthat coke has eroded his brain cells so he cant count to 6 anymore!

Glanville (who was superb for the Cowboys) did the same in golden point extra time in Brisbane on Friday. In that game Morgan shot the ball to Feldt who scores in the corner except the referees give a harsh/incorrect forward pass call. Similar hooker brain fades on the last with Burrow/Thurston setting for the drop. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

So getting back to the original thread.

Is there any substance to the Brough rumour. Personally I think having a quality player creating competition for places can only be a good thing.

Also I do reckon people saying Leeds would not want a certain Jamie peacock as he was Bull scum. Now I struggle to see who was the most popular Sinny or JP

funny that