So you've gone from dropping Hauraki totally to putting him straight in the run on side when his impact worked so well off the the bench last week? Then in turn, have taken Delaney, our leading meter maker last week who goes through a hell of a lot of work, and put him on the bench?

I sometimes wonder about you when you pick these teams

So if you accept your use of the word 'only' has to be set alongside game-time played you presumably must have the count of the relevant minutes the props played to justify making such a comment. Do you?



Props defend in the middle third. If they are introduced from the bench at a time that coincides with the ball being spread away from the centre field it becomes very relevant to the amount of defence they can be expected to get involved with.

The criticism of Kirke (as you mention him) I believe stems from his inability to get hold of the ball often enough and take it forward far enough with real determination.

Defensively would you rather run at Leuluai or Kirke?

The BJB comment was more tounge in cheek



But I'm not sure Smith has the speed or skill level to go around Richards like that. And thinking about it now, smith will be attacked all night with the kick when there's that height advantage.

Which begs the question, why would people prefer BJB in for this match. He's looked absolutely awful with kicks in preseason, and was very vunerable at Old trafford with the kicks.

I'm not saying I want BJB to start over Smith. I have no horse in this race and feel that Coach McDermott, who sees these players every day, knows best.

But I feel out of the 2, Jones-Bishop has more to offer when he's game fit and ready to go. Smith, as I mentioned on another forum, though has the ability to be a top winger too. His defence lets him down massively though and he still doesn't look hungry to me.

Quite agree it all comes down to ifs and buts and maybes which allows everyone an opinion.

I feel we won't see the best of Smith unless he moves to what I think is his best position on Fullback. But unless Webb shows poor form and is dropped or injured, I doubt we'll get to see him there with BJB on the wing.

My comment is based on my impression that Griffin had the least game time with Kylie next (of the props) Do you have the relevant number of minutes each prop played in order to justify your complaint at my use of the word "only"?



Possibly or possibly not. Do you have evidence of your theory in this case?



As a back I tried to run into space rather that "at" a player but I quite liked props as they were good to side step and used to always buy the dummy. But IMO Kirke is the more reliable defender with a poor go forward game while Leuluai has the better go forward game but lazier defence these days. If I were Sam Tomkins I would prefer to have Kylie in front of me.

If I were Sam Fox I'd prefer Kirke because I reckon I'd still out muscle him.

I would go

Webb
BJB Watkins Hardaker Hall
Sinfield McGuire
Bailey Mcshane Peacock
Delaney JJB
Ablett

Burrow, Hauraki, Griffin, Moore/Leuluai

BJB may be a gamble but i think so is Smith right now, neither are great in defence but BJBs pace could win us the match, would Smiths? I dont know if Leuluai had an injury which is why he only made 9 tackles or if it was a tactical decision to use him like Fekka in his Wigan days. Burrow doesnt work for me as a starting hooker although McShane didnt exactly fill his boots, I doubt even if Hood is fit he would play in this game. Unlikely for this game but Sinny could play 9 with burrow and mcguire at 6 and 7 and another forward on the bench like so:

Webb
BJB Watkins Hardaker Hall
McGuire Burrow
Bailey Sinfield Peacock
Delaney JJB
Clarkson

Ablett, Griffin, Hauraki, Moore/Leuluai

And if Sinny, JJB and Leuluai are out? Think the days of having 4 forwards on the bench are gone with the dropping down of interchanges.

Webb
BJB Watkins Hardaker Hall
McGuire Burrow
Bailey McShane Peacock
Delaney Ablett
Clarkson

Hauraki, Griffin, Ward/Hood(if fit), Moore/Leuluai

I doubt all 3 will be out or if Hood has recovered from injury. If sinny is fit all will be fine.

BJB maybe taller, but that does not mean he can out jump Smith. He may be slightly slower but he IMO as a higher all round skill set than BJB

Smith has a good kicking game aswell, which is good to have as a back up.

McShane has a good kicking game. Get BJB in for this.

Why? As far as I'm aware he has done nothing yet this season to warrant selection as of yet. Players shouldn't be played when they are not in form, even if they are perceived to be better players than those keeping them out of the team.

You used 'only' not me. It appears from the above you did so without having the minutes each prop played which you accept (indeed you suggested) is a neccesary pre-requisite in applying the term. Whether I have the minutes the props played is irrelevant as I didn't use the term.



Are you suggesting games do not overwhelmingly begin with forward dominated one man charges, safety first five drives and a kick for territory where the ball is concentrated in the middle third, especially in conditions such as those encountered on Friday night.




I recall when Tomkins ran at Leuluai at the DW Stadium last season on a kick/lost possession return and Leuluai smashed him while at the same time ripping the ball out of his srawny grasp.

Unfortunately that was an actual incident though so obviously can't compare with any imaginary ones you may have.

I agree.....but your criteria for selecting Smith appears to be that he has a good kicking game as 'back up'.

Would you select Smith over Hall for the same reason ?

Smith isnt exactly in form is he. Hardacker on the wing and Ablett in the centres????

That would allow clarkson in I suppose

Looks like Carmont is injured reading on the pie board

Been looking at the smilies why isn't there a flag waving one for such an occasion?

I wasn't justifying his selection because of the fact he has a kicking game, just stating the fact that he does have one. I think by what i've read and seen so far Smith is in better form than BJB, didn't really do much wrong against HKR, so doesn't warrant being dropped after the first game of the season.

I spent some time on there yesterday.

What is a Brigante? I was reading a thread and it sounds like it's an arts and crafts club where they do needlework and flag making but some other fans were insinuating they're a bit more notorious than that. Apparently they have a Brigante wannabe going around doing graffiti.

It's all very interesting stuff. Life in a Northern Town eh?