While the need to recruit Buderus at the time was questionable he is certainly an upgrade on Diskin. Whether the signing was right or not it's been great to be able to watch someone who will go down as one of the best hookers of his generation. I'm sure McSHane would have complimented Diskin as well but I bet he's learning a hell of a lot more from Buderus.

Although I'm sure you know all that already - keep plugging that agenda

I've been massively impressed with McShane this season, after being a little critical last season.

I guess that's what comes from learning off one of the best

You mean Lowes' influence of course?

After all Buderus has been there for the last 2 years as well

Buderus + McShane > Buderus + Diskin > DisKin + McShane

with the first combination winning by about a million miles 'cos we can all now see that Diskin has been crap for a good few years

Paul McShane is the new Dean Lawford. Cunningham he ain't!!

He was bloody awful in 2009, worse in 2008 and absolutely shocking in 2007. I mean, we were languishing in the depths of obscurity with a crap hooker in those years.

He's no Cunningham but he has the potential to be a lot better than Lawford!

Although Lawford had the potential to be a lot better than Lawford was as well!

Yes I just get the feeling that he is on the same trajectory as Lawford. Of course I really hope he progresses and ends up much nearer the Cunnigham end of the scale, as ever time will tell

Lawfords potential was never converted, a bit like his goal kicks.



He liked the booze too much and the training even less.

But the comparisons are easy to put together on the rugby field, old school barrell like half or hooker. Crafty, tricky etc. And they are both pig ugly and come from 'colourful' backgrounds.

**G1 Anti-Buderus Agenda Alert.**

Er... do you really think McShane would be capable of this had he not spent 2 years training with one of the greatest hookers the game has ever produced?

I'm fully aware that Buderus is no longer the best he could be, and he's come to Leeds for the cash, so what?! As a 1 to 1 trainer for McShane you couldn't get any better. McShane has always showed promise, and hopefully Buderus can teach him everything he knows, before leaving him to it.

These guys work 30 hours a week, and you watch 1.33 hours of that. You watch 4.433% of their working week, and you're saying... "What's the point of Buderus when McShane can do the job?".
Get a grip.

Still I am happy it's a buderus vs mcshane thread.


Better than buderus vs diskin!!!!!'

Depends if it's a comment re Buderus signing for 2009 or re extending Buderus' contract for 2011.

If it's re 2009 I don't agree as not many thought McShane was ready to take the role on at that time and his early defence has been suspect although it's improving now.

There could be an argument to say what Buderus is doing this season could have been done by Diskin and that would have been a cheaper (+ using one less overseas trained) option.

Not sure what Leeds would have done with the additional quota space or cap money though. I suspect not a lot.

Really?! We've never directly compared those two players before. Perhaps we should take a quick year or two to discuss it.

Either player is capable of putting in a 40 to 50 minute stint with an impact hooker filling in the rest from the bench. What Leeds had been lacking was the impact as neither of 'you know who' were particularly effective in that role. It appears Leeds now may have that option available to them, although there may still be times when coach McDermott goes with the 'big' bench option instead.

The busy Easter period is a time for forward game-time management and rotation so it's no surprise Buderus and McShane are sharing the workload at this point of the season.

Unremarkable comprehension alert.



Hookers have done quite well at Leeds in the past without the benefit of training alongside Buderus so I've no reason to doubt that if, I stress if, McShane is good enough he will make it with or without Buderus blocking his path to the 1st team.

Is Buderus a coach or a player?

Except I haven't actually said that have I?

Learn to comprehend. The point is a very arguable one. TVOC can recognise the argument. Even if you don't agree it's not difficult to comprehend, for some at least.

Buderus remains an unnecessary waste of cap money, quota space and has been an overwhelming disappointment in his Leeds career, I repeat his Leeds career. We had a quality number 9 and had achieved success. We had McShane waiting in the wings. We have Hood behind him. The big splashy signing and cap space could and should have been used for a top quality centre and or prop.

That said, the move has been made so I hope McShane continues his improvement and that Buderus can emulate Diskin's domestic successes at Leeds so something can be salvaged from the signing. That doesn't mean I have to pretend that Buderus has been Leeds greatest ever player each week when, in reality, his displays at hooker have ranged from quiet, effective, good and to excellent on rare occasions. Never has he been the dominant force within our team that a player of his reputation should have been or that you would think he actually has been by reading some of the slushy guff posted by some of his acolytes.

Why do you care what cap money he's "wasting"?

Personally, I have loved watching Buderus play since he joined Leeds. And to me, who pays for my own season ticket, he's been worth every penny. I couldn't care less which player is on what, what we paid for who, and which country they're from. I want to pay my money, go to the game, and enjoy watching the game. And I enjoy watching Buderus play more than I did Diskin. My season ticket didn't go up when we signed him, so I couldn't care how much of GH's profit he wants to get paid.

I understand that you want to play the Big Executive and pretend you're running the club. And I'm sure you relish in the challenge of proving to yourself how you could've achieved the same results much more economically, whilst not even needing to utilise the allocated 5 quota spaces.

But those of us that have proper businesses to run get enough of a kick out of that, which enables us to just turn up at the rugby and enjoy watching. Not really caring whether there's a cheaper option than Buderus, because I quite like watching him play, and he's not getting paid out of my profits.

Quite agree. I too enjoy watching the Buderus skills.

Both Buderus and Diskin are past their prime but it is Buderus who still displays the class. McShane is progressing well but his defence and work rate still need much improvement particularly when compared to the old man Buderus.

Why do any of us care enough about any aspects of the Rhinos to post our opinions about them on an Internet message board? A bit of a daft question, even for you.

It's called discussing things. That's what the forum is for. That's what we're doing. Der!

Good for you. I loved watching every minute of watching Diskin help Leeds win those 4 Grand Finals. Is there anything else you love you'd like to share with us or shall we try and get back to discussing rugby related issues?

What an insightful comment. That must make you the same as, oh I don't know, every other poster who posts on here. So what? Where does that take the discussion of a player's merits?

I enjoy watching Leeds be successful. I waited long enough for it. In those years I waited for it I watched many, bigger name players, better talented players on bigger salaries than Buderus. It was fun watching their individual skills but it wasn't a patch on watching Diskin and his counterparts hoist that trophy for the 1st time in 32 years back in 04.

Actually, I was engaging in a discussion on an Internet message board. Just like you. Only I was doing it a lot better.

Those fries won't serve themselves.

Go do that then rather than wasting time embarrassing yourself on here.

Again, good for you. But I still must ask, why then do you feel the need to bother entering discussions on here?

Caring enough to take time away from your business to post about it on here though.

Good for you. I quite liked watching Diskin play. It coincided with us winning things.

I think that is what you would class as being well and truly 'owned.' I don't subscribe to gareth's anti Buderus agenda but when you give him that much material to work with he's going to rip you to shreds on here!

i too loved watching diskin. However i think we got the best years out of him and i don't begrudge him getting one last big payday. For me we kept the better of the two and mcshane and buderus compliment each other better than any combo last year

Succinctly put! The board have been criticised by some for being too sentimental with some of out longer serving players. The one occasion they let one go and they take flak for that too. Just shows they sometimes can't win!

I actually agree with the majority of this.



(it's the "overwhelming disappointment" statement that debilitates your argument)

Do you actually dare to question the wisdom of the Leeds RL CEO ??

They complEment each other too ...which is collectively nice to see.



Seriously ...you are 100% correct. Well said.

Someone put it very succinctly when they said



Buderus was unnecessary and a waste of cap and quota space when the club were in desperate need for a quality front rower and or centre. Remember, he was the replacement for Ellis.

It's not a difficult proposition to understand but it seems coming from me some unremarkable people react to the poster rather than what is posted.