True story.

I was once doing some consultancy work for the DWP (massive waste of tax payers cash but that’s a different story) and was dealing with ‘rank and file’ DWP employees. I once asked them individually what department they were in and what they did and, hand on heart, the honest answer I got from one of them was “well… I don’t really know, I enter details from these form things into the computer but spend most of the time trying to read dodgy handwriting” when I asked her what the forms were she answered “… no idea, I just enter them onto the computer”.

This typified the attitude and intelligence of the majority of DWP employees I came across in the 8 months I was contracted to them.

Although I haven’t had a great deal of need to communicate with employees of HMRC I suspect they are much the same as all government employees.

As the saying goes “if you can’t get a proper job join the Civil Service” I suspect the reverse will be more difficult for most of them.

In my experience having worked for large organisations in both the private & public sector, bureaucracy rules in both.
Jobsworths are not limited solely to the public sector, try dealing with any of the (now ) private utility companies, any telecom provider, the banking & financial services sector etc & you will experience the same issues.
Public sector employees are an easy target but they are staffed by people no different than all other organisations.
At least they don't see the immorality of seeking massive government handouts then paying out obscene bonuses to folk who are even less productive (in the sense of actually making things) than public sector employees.

"the real workplace"???? Wtf?

Lazy generalisations again Mc. There's been a heck of a trim of the lesser lights in the service in the past 20 years. In my experience the majority of staff are extremely capable and would add a great deal of worthwhile experience to the private sector.

We'll see



How do you explain the debacle of a couple of million incorrect tax codes (one of them mine) if the hangers-on have gone already, or the farce that is the child and working tax credits office (again, personal experience, call three times and you'll get three different opinions), or the utter incompetence of the Insolvency Office who assessed my redundancy at £9200 and then asked for £5300 of it back two months later because they hadn't read the very important fact that I'd written on page one of the form (they admit it was their fault) ?

Sorry, recent personal experience tells me that my opinion of the last 20-odd years has not changed one iota.

I might sound a bit stupid or thick here, but could some one please tell me what the 'test case' is

I reckon Leeds should get Ken Dodd's lawyer on the case.

You mean the one that defended him in the murder trial of his dad's dog?

so,Doddy didn't do daddies doggy den diddee ?

Correct. Unless you're speaking to a supervisor or something along those lines. They just do as little as possible to help you and as much as the computer will let them. Very poor customer service. We sent 2 64-8 (authorising your agent) forms to HMRC @ Longbenton CAA Team in the same envelope. They've lost one of them. Probably stapled it to the back of t'other one!

Totally p[ii[/issed off with HMRC at the minute. I know for the Corporation Tax department, it is one of their busiest times but for me to ring their office around 50times since Wednesday and not even get a ring tone is a joke. Its the only way of contacting them re 'Unable to pay' a CT bill.

I could rant all day about [ithe filth[/i as we call them

I had reason to contact The Insolvency Service in the week before christmas, they had asked me to contact them urgently under threat of all sorts of bad stuff, I had already contacted them on the matter in November by using the email address on the previous letter they had sent me, it was a named person on the email address so not just a generic one.

After the threatening letter in December I emailed them again and rang them on the number provided, I got a recorded message saying that they weren't taking incoming calls, (can you imagine any private business doing that ?) I also replied by post.

Then I remembered why they probably hadn't got the email - in my business dealings with the Employment Service I'd been told that any replies to a government email address from a non-government office went into a spam trap where it may or may not be released by an IT bod at some undecided date in future, they have since responded to my letter but not the emails yet.

So why put your personal email address on the letterhead if your email server automatically bins the f'kin thing ?



I just find it hilarious that the only people who think that the various departments of the civil service offer value for money and high efficiency are the people who actually work there, anyone else who has to deal with them soon realises the truth.

Shall we bring Damo and the Job Centre into the discussion yet or are we saving him for the final assault ?

You see now I know you are lying....

Not suprised. You're just sent round in circles with HMRC. You're supposed to ring payment support if you cannot pay. Payment support redirected me to the CT office. The CT office's number is constantly engaged. You ring payment support again and they say 'we cant do anything, you'll have to keep trying the CT office' blah blah blah.

I'd love to go work in HMRC's Castle House in Leeds to see what training (if any) the staff get and how they're taught to do it.

We dont need Damo on this one!

I took early retirement at leeds uni in september and although i have another pension from leeds city council which i am on basic rate on the small university pension i am also on basic rate income tax %22 over two months ago I filled in the forms they asked me and ive heard nothing since.They must owe me a bit now I'm going to give them a ring today

Jeez! This is like reading the Daily Mail!

As you correctly guess I am a civil servant and there are a few numpties in the service albeit far fewer than when I joined 15 years ago. I can't speak for HMRC, DWP or DSS but I can speak for Cabinet Office, DCLG, DFE, and DECC. I work with Councils, Emergency Services, Health, Utilities and the Military who've all got good things to say about us and colleagues. In a previous job I know a large number of companies with good things to say about the Foreign Office from my time there.

Sure, there are some poor performers as there are in all walks of life. Businesses go under all the time too but they never seem to get the flak devoted to public servants. Neither the private or the puiblic sector is perfect nor does either have a monopoly on doing "real work".

I rarely get on my high horse but I take this lazy generalisation and prejudice personally.

You can see though that the perception of those departments who deal direct with the public, ie those that we see the machinations of, is dreadful cant you ?

Everyone who has contributed to this thread has reeled out stories of personal experience, none of them have mentioned Daily Wail stories, your generalised dismissal of these personal experiences is lazy and prejudicial.

I can continue reeling about the wonderful, cost-effective HMRC if necessary?

I am full of admiration for the private sector professional individuals who are spending their working day posting their thoughts on public sector workers on a rugby Internet message board.

I bet these lazy good for nothing public sector workers aren't spending their working day as productively are they, except for Bullseye, of course.

How about the nice people at Santander who sent account statements to the wrong people? Or KPMG who can't accurately audit company accounts? Or Skype who can't keep their service running? Or Clydesdale bank who can't add up someone's mortgage payments correctly? Or the Terminal 5 baggage problem?

It's not just the public sector that c0cks things up.

Artthur Anderson
Halifax Bank
Northern Rock
Lehmann Bros
Bank of Scotland
Haliburton
BP

Our servers are all down. That's my excuse. A useless private sector company runs our IT. Ask GrimRhino about em.



This never happened when we ran our own IT, oh no!

It doesn't matter Sam, you'd just be sat around all day drinking tea, doing the crossword and giving people inaccurate advice whether they were down or not.

That's how the public sector "works", according to the overwhelming body of opinion presented by all of three people on an internet forum.

Course, any attempt to defend public sector workers by a similar number of people who have experience of working within it can be dismissed as not representative or prejudiced without a trace of irony.

You accepted any empty boxes to get the goods into this years budget this year Andy ?

Not my job Gary - I'm in that great wide world called the private sector now and have been for the last three years. Somehow, despite comments to the contrary on this very thread, I seem to be surviving...

Same here

I'm dying to have a moan but HMRC have never once ballsed up my tax. Useless f00kers.