G1 -I agree.

How can you expect our half backs to perform and organise when the team was all over the place the forwards we had out look shattered and nobody was putting their hands up.Most points through out the game we had Hall and Smith running the ball in.

The half backs performed well under the circumstances if they had played behind a strong pack we would have ripped Hull apart.

To be fair though, there have been similar issues earlier in the year with a strong pack - hence Leeds struggling to clinch 4th spot.

Anyway, was only my observation - I think Leeds are a top prop and an organising half away from being unbeatable in SL (and yes, I know you've done OK without them recently!!

)

McGuire has made more [url=http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?season=2010&stat=errors&hs1=2010&hp1=923&hs2=2010&hp2=263errors[/url than any other SL player this season.

To me that just shows how involved he's tried to get.

Funny how its that majority of the go to guys who are on that list too. Think that proves my point.

The error-ridden elements of frailty in his natural game and style of play is multiplied to the n'th disastrous degree against the Aussies and Kiwis at international level against the world's best players, so it's hardly surprising he's often been one of the weakest links for England.

Tony Smith was correct in finally dropping him from the team, albeit way too late. He should have been axed after the World Cup.

Even more of a cross man than Brian Noble.

too many jokes...must resisit...can't...

tbh is catching was a bit poor...
should have retired the first time, the comeback from injury was a little unbelievable...
he was a great leader for the 12 other men...
sometimes he could perform miracles and save the day...
that beard, reminds me of the Vodafone Warriors, or JJB t'other season...
he was always popular when on water carrier duty...

Indeed. As much as he's a great player for Leeds you can't afford to make regular errors against the Aussies and Kiwis and that is where McGuire has let himself down in the past. He's just too high risk to be first choice stand-off. Admittedly he's also had several good games for GB/England but I think in fairness that Tomkins offers more at international level (fewer errors, tougher with a similarly strong attacking game). Sorry if this upsets people but I think it is all too easy for Leeds fans to overlook McGuire's flaws.

Pryce is an interesting one. No doubt he has the ability and physical attributes to be the best player in SL, he's just too inconsistent.

Agreed. It's what happens in a GB or England shirt that concerns me and how players perform at that level.

It seems we're a dying breed. Fans these days seem to care more about what players have done in their particular clubs colours like Blue and Amber than what they've actually done (or more significantly, failed to do) in internationals. Sad really.

Right on both points.

McGuire is the main reason we are in 4th spot and our victory against Hull was down to both our half backs who still turned it around despite our pack failing to master the depleted Hull forwards.

If we all focused on what players have done in GB/England jerseys we'd be miserable downtrodden fekkers like you because GB/England have not done a great deal these last few decades.

Anyway, evaluate Rob Burrow, man of the series for GB against the Kiwis in a series win. Share with me the high esteem with which you hold him thanks to his GB performances.

surely that depends what is classed as an error, and wouldnt it be just as likely to minimised rather than multiplied by playing with better quality players,

besides, is the error rate 'that' huge, Benji Marshall has made 36 errors this season from 24 games 1.5 errors per game, mcguire 48 from 26 or 1.84 errors per game. Im really not that sure that 1 more error every 3 games makes a hell of a lot of difference, especially considering a lot of Mcguires 'errors' will stem from him backing up and trying to take a very difficult offload which is a large part of his game

I am not even sure that McGuire has been error strewn in his international appearances.

Can Keith substantiate his off the cuff claim?

The best players ( in life as well as in a game ) make " mistakes " because they are willing to take the risks with the talent they have.

My step son has great potential as a winger owing to his pace and ability to beat a man on the outside. He will probably unfortunately fail though because he has grown more afraid of making a mistake and shies away from calling for the ball and quickly looks to pass to somebody else. His mistake free contributions to the team are no consolation for what he could do for his team. Danny is always willing to get involved and I will always applaud him knowing his doubted abilities will shine enough to compensate for any " mistakes ". At international level he has had the misfortune to be surrounded by too many others failing around him. He is not perfect and does largely need a dominant pack..... Which half back doesn't ?

Did'nt you see how we were destroyed at the JJB?
That's where Maguire is found wanting it was his fault the Aussies worked a 3 man over-lap down his side time and time again.
Everytime we get a "lesson" at international level and he's been selected it's his fault because the other 16 selected have always been "world class" but at least this year we the Mercurial Tompkins and Eastmond to save us and "uber" coach Mcbanana to inspire and come up with the tactical master-plan to see us home and hammer the final nail into Maguires international coffin.

He's pretty error strewn in SL to be fair - that's not to say he's a bad player, clearly he isn't.

He's made the most errors in SL this year and misses over 10% of his tackles if you believe the stats (which I know you don't!

)

Edit - just read Smokey's post and he makes some good points.

Here are the [url=http://livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match2709.html?page=player-stats&refresh=1284049898091urlstats[/url for the Australia game at the DW stadium where McGuire made 3 errors and missed 5 tackles. That was more errors than any other England player in that match and more missed tackles than any England player other than Lee Smith who missed 7.

I do remember a quote from, i think it was, Wayne Bennett that went something like 'Show me a 0 in the errors column and i'll show you a player who isn't willing to try something special to win us a game' and Danny McGuire has definitely won you guys plenty of games this year but making the most errors in the league is definitely something to worry about.

I think he was unlucky to miss out on the dream team this year however if everyone was fit i don't think he should be in the England team. Fortunately for him Pryce is out and Eastmond seems to be struggling with injury so he might get his chance and i personally will support him. Having said that I'm not exactly dreading his visit to the DW this Sunday.

People slated Jammer after that game, but he made 9.4m per carry against the Kangaroos!

fgb should be slated after the cas game, chase ran past him twice like he wasnt there and does fgb's half tackle which lead to another cas try count as a miss tackle? he was one of the main reasons cas waltzed through ya, nearly cost you 2nd. he is well out of sorts.

the aussies and kiwis will expose him and murder him in defense

I love it when people have a go at McGuire after his so called poor performance at the JJB! He wasn't great and did have a poor game with the ball in hand, but this whole almost now apocryphal tale that it was his fault, because they scored the majority of the points down his wing and he missed a boat load of tackles is just laughable. It smacks of both a desperation to blame someone (which it is) but shows a real lack of understanding of the modern game.

Stop and ask yourself why was McGuire, a player who's weakest part of his game is his defence, was actual left in a position where, time and time again, he was left one on one to tackle one of the worlds best centres? I tell you why, the forwards dominated the England forwards in the middle of the park, they are able to draw in three and four tacklers every tackle and then regain their feet and play the ball quickly and they do this in quick succession over three of four tackles. This means the England defence is always on the back-foot and the scrambling sliding defensive line gets ever more disorganised and indeed out of position. They are then able to move the ball swiftly across the attacking line and pass the ball while moving forward at pace, McGuire now find himself on his own and with no sliding or scrambling cover coming across from the players defending in the tighter central defensive line!

McGuire is held up as a scapegoat because he was unable to contain Ingliss, but why was McGuire left to contain Ingliss on his own... because many of the guys around him who should be coming across and supporting him where not up to the first part of their role, never mind the second.

Only if you erroneously assume the opposition players of Australia and NZ are not of a superior quality.

Here's a clue... THEY ARE.



Benji Marshall is a superior quality player playing in a superior and more intense quality competition, therefore you're not comparing like for like. McGuire's natural error rate would multiply exponentially were he to be exposed to that level of quality competition.

Thanks for saving me the job.

And here are McGuire's [url=http://livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match1522.html?page=player-stats&refresh=1284071252330STATS[/url for the semi final of the RLWC against New Zealand at Suncorp Stadium where McGuire made 4 errors and missed 3 tackles, and where his mistakes were instrumental in England conceding 4 tries. That was more errors than any other England player in that match apart from Ade Gardner who made 5.

McGuire was the scapegoat for that awful performance, but as said it wasn't all down to him. He and Smith were all over the place, made worse by the fact that they had no inside support whatsoever.

Having said that, McGuire is a bit error-prone. What concerns me most is some of his panic passing under pressure, which he has done a lot of against Australia. Can't blame him for trying but for whatever reason for GB/England he seems to be one of the worst at being completely intimidated before the game. If he could calm down he could be very good.

not really, surely Mcguire's play is as relative to the players he is playing with as much as those he is playing against.
again, wont Benji Marshall be attempting to collect a higher quality offload, have higher quality dummy runners, higher quality defenders either side of him, higher quality players passing to him aswell as running for him mitigating the improvement in the quality of both defence and attack he is facing

What change did the coach make in that game at the DW at half time to solidify the right side defence?

I'll give you a clue, he didn't take off McGuire.