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| On paper that's a 17 as good as any. If Hardaker is fit Cas will have advantage at FB & HB. Leeds have better 3/4s but the inability to set them free. Should be cracking.
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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"You have to go with Cuthbertson who offers both attacking options and high tackle count. Garbutt offers good meters but a lot less in defense so better as impact off the bench. We will need our defenders early as Cas usually start fast and we need the maximum attacking options against their good defense.'"
Whilst Cuthbertson is the better defender I wouldn't say the gap between them is significant. Cuthbertson is the better option to move the ball around but maybe completing sets and making meters and making sure Cas have to start sets as close to their line as possible is the best way to start the opening quarter instead of throwing it about, offloading and taking risks that see us cough up ball in our own half and gifting them good position.
We won't win the game in the opening 20 mins but we could well lose it if we lose the field position battle and a lot of the opening quarter is played near our end. I also say that Cuthbertson is arguably better at offering impact from the bench than Garbutt as he'll hopefully be able to get more offloads off against tiring defenders.
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| Anyone want 4 x free Newcastle v York tickets for Friday night? Collect East Leeds
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| My main worry with this fixture is our edge defense - with Sutcliffe probably playing left that means our defense on our left edge is Hall, Burrow, Sutcliffe. Luckily Cas's right edge attack isn't as good as their left edge attack and that's where mainly I think we have the problem in "where to play McGuire"
Their main attack is on their left edge with Shenton and Eden being outside of Gale and Hardaker.
We MUST have a plan to stop Gale, he is their main play-maker, nearly every left edge move starts with him. What about assigning someone permanently on him (Steve Ward maybe).
We have to close him down the second he receives any pass.
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| Quote ="cosworth"My main worry with this fixture is our edge defense - with Sutcliffe probably playing left Centre that means our defense on our left edge is Hall, Burrow, Sutcliffe. Luckily Cas's right edge attack isn't as good as their left edge attack and that's where mainly I think we have the problem in "where to play McGuire"
Their main attack is on their left edge with Shenton and Eden being outside of Gale and Hardaker.
We MUST have a plan to stop Gale, he is their main play-maker, nearly every left edge move starts with him. What about assigning someone permanently on him (Steve Ward maybe).
We have to close him down the second he receives any pass.'"
two things I am laughing at there, and nothing to do with you, just the points raised and reminiscing.
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Firstly, Brough has done this for years to us, and we have never managed it with him either, so not sure it is a tactic in the coaches locker.
Secondly, and the bit chuckling at. Many moons ago it always used to be the job of the loose to keep in tact the oppossition scrum half, that was his job in defence, and ball player in attack. So the point you made and the player responsible is perfect. But the modern game has moved so far away from this it is ridiculous, why I don't know.
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| Its only 5 years ago since Carl Ablett did a decent job on Lee Briers in the 2012 Grand Final against Warrington. Would still love to know what he said to him after scoring his try !
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| Seem to recall Delaney doing it to? Brough I think 3 years ago.
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| Quote ="chapylad"Seem to recall Delaney doing it to? Brough I think 3 years ago.'"
The CC game at Headingley in 2015 we won 48-16 and we did a great job on Brough, our opening try came from forcing him to pass under pressure on the last tackle and Watkins picked up the loose ball and went about 80/90m to score.
That game interestingly came off the back of 3 winless games and disappointing performances.
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| I know a lot is made of our left side attack in the media but I actually think we're more dangerous right side this year when it's been Roberts,Mcmeeken,Webster,minikin
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| Really looking forward​ to this.
Feel more confident than earlier in the year but still wary of their ability to score quick points.
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| Quote ="rhinos21"Really looking forward​ to this.
Feel more confident than earlier in the year but still wary of their ability to score quick points.'"
If it's a poor day weather wise I think it might help us keep the score down...but on a dry, firm football pitch I think we'll struggle to keep Cas down to under 38/40 and in those conditions some of our 'laterally' slow in defence props will need hover boards to try and keep up with the ball movement of Cas
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| Quote ="cheekydiddles"If it's a poor day weather wise I think it might help us keep the score down...but on a dry, firm football pitch I think we'll struggle to keep Cas down to under 38/40 and in those conditions some of our 'laterally' slow in defence props will need hover boards to try and keep up with the ball movement of Cas'"
Hope we get some sensible subs keeping the forwards fresh.
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| Quote ="PrinterThe"Whilst Cuthbertson is the better defender I wouldn't say the gap between them is significant. Cuthbertson is the better option to move the ball around but maybe completing sets and making meters and making sure Cas have to start sets as close to their line as possible is the best way to start the opening quarter instead of throwing it about, offloading and taking risks that see us cough up ball in our own half and gifting them good position.
We won't win the game in the opening 20 mins but we could well lose it if we lose the field position battle and a lot of the opening quarter is played near our end. I also say that Cuthbertson is arguably better at offering impact from the bench than Garbutt as he'll hopefully be able to get more offloads off against tiring defenders.'"
Cuthbertson has made 200 more tackles than Garbutt, almost double, this season which in my opinion is very significant. He is our top meter maker and offloader and can play long minutes so I would want him on the field for the longest time possible including from the start. Garbutt will provide good impact either side of half time but is not as mobile on defense.
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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Cuthbertson has made 200 more tackles than Garbutt, almost double, this season which in my opinion is very significant. He is our top meter maker and offloader and can play long minutes so I would want him on the field for the longest time possible including from the start. Garbutt will provide good impact either side of half time but is not as mobile on defense.'"
Yeah Cuthbertson has played in 4 more games than Garbutt and usually plays more minutes so obviously his tackle numbers are higher. Doesn't mean the difference between the as defenders is significant though, just means one has been on the field more. Garbutt has 8 missed tackles in 9 games (less than 1 a game), Cuthbertson 25 in 13 (almost two a game)
With regards to metres made, Cuthbertson may be our biggest metre maker but averages 120m a game compared to Garbutt who is almost at 150m so again difference in time spent on the field. If you've got a prop who can give you 150m in a game then start him for this game where we need to have good field position, not reduce him to impact stints off the bench. Cuthbertson's strength - offloads - we don't need from minute 1 on Sunday, especially if they don't come off and gift Cas good starting field position.
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| Quote ="PrinterThe"Whilst he got their first try, Ryan Morgan looks like one of the poorest NRL recruits to SL in a long time.
Will be interesting next week. Awesome at home but Cas have lost 3 of their last 5 away games (including this same Saints side a few weeks back) so are beatable away from the Jungle.'"
But we've won our last 4 magic weekend games.
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| Quote ="newgroundb4wakey"But we've won our last 4 magic weekend games.'"
Yeah you played a poor Wakefield side on 3 of those occasions. Just pointing out that there's a difference between your form at Jungle and when you are away from it this year, which there clearly is.
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| Quote ="PrinterThe"Yeah you played a poor Wakefield side on 3 of those occasions. Just pointing out that there's a difference between your form at Jungle and when you are away from it this year, which there clearly is.'"
We save our best away form for major stadiums like St James Park & Headingley. =#FFFFFFBut not Wembley.
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| Oh you.
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| Away from computers today but IIRC last five meetings - looking at it from a Leeds POV - L,L,L,L,L (unprecedented) with the most recent two losses been by record margins home and away.
The only stat Leeds can take much comfort from is their recent record V Castleford at Neutral venues.
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| Which judging by the absolute mullerings mentioned above means we can look forward to conceding the most points in a neutral venue to the list.
#HistoryMakers
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| Quote ="tigertot"We save our best away form for major stadiums like St James Park & Headingley. =#FFFFFFBut not Wembley.'"
Aye you really showed up well at Wembley in 2014
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| Quote ="PrinterThe"Aye you really showed up well at Wembley in 2014
'"
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| Dave Craven just tweeted that we've lost Keith Galloway (knee injury from training) and Garbutt (concussion) for the game on Saturday - Kal and Delaney back
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| That puts us short on props for this one.
Maybe Ferres can play prop he certainly has the size.
Baldwinson, Cuthbertson and Singleton the others.
Shame we let Oledezki go to Bradford!
Is Zak fit to play on Sunday?
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| Quote ="PrinterThe"Yeah Cuthbertson has played in 4 more games than Garbutt and usually plays more minutes so obviously his tackle numbers are higher. Doesn't mean the difference between the as defenders is significant though, just means one has been on the field more. Garbutt has 8 missed tackles in 9 games (less than 1 a game), Cuthbertson 25 in 13 (almost two a game)
With regards to metres made, Cuthbertson may be our biggest metre maker but averages 120m a game compared to Garbutt who is almost at 150m so again difference in time spent on the field. If you've got a prop who can give you 150m in a game then start him for this game where we need to have good field position, not reduce him to impact stints off the bench. Cuthbertson's strength - offloads - we don't need from minute 1 on Sunday, especially if they don't come off and gift Cas good starting field position.'"
Yes you are quite right about Cuthbertson's playing longer minutes but the tackle count difference is still significant. Garbutt would have to make 50 tackles per game for 4 matches while Cuthbertson is out to even up the score. Most unlikely he could do that.
They both have a different role to play in the side and while not against starting Garbutt it should not be at the expense of Cuthbertson who is the more effective prop overall and so important to our attack which as the best form of defense. Hence I want him on the field for big minutes. However Galloway has the best meters per carry so usually he starts and Garbut comes on for impact which he does very well.
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