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| Quote ="Cala Millor Rhino"in 2005'"
ok, so before the top up fees were implemented, and the culture of debt that now enshrines the majority of students
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| Quote ="J O N N Y"ok, so before the top up fees were implemented, and the culture of debt that now enshrines the majority of students'" That culture has been around for a long time though its nothing new, and it is too easy for students to get into debt infact we have a system that actively encourages it.
it is possible to go through Uni without getting into extravagant amount of debt but most students don't/won't make that happen preferring to build problems for themselves when the graduate instead.
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| Quote ="J O N N Y"ok, so before the top up fees were implemented, and the culture of debt that now enshrines the majority of students'"
i hate to say it, but there are loads of part-time jobs about thats what people who don't want to end up in debt do, thats what i did!
i'm sorry, but i've been there, done it, worked through uni and come out without an over-draft! anyone who comes out with a sob story is either lazy or too interested in gettting pi$$ed to work!
no sympathy!
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| Quote ="Cala Millor Rhino"i hate to say it, but there are loads of part-time jobs about thats what people who don't want to end up in debt do, thats what i did!
i'm sorry, but i've been there, done it, worked through uni and come out without an over-draft! anyone who comes out with a sob story is either lazy or too interested in gettting pi$$ed to work!
no sympathy!'" Spot on, there is no reason people can't study and work, especially as most course you are lucky if you are expected to attend lectures for 10 hours a week.
The problem is too many people see Uni as a chance to party for 3 years rather than taking it seriously and looking to the future benefits it can hold.
The only debt I had when I left uni was from my student loan, I worked every hour possible (and my course wasn't as "easy" in the hours department as a lot) to ensure that I could support myself through the course, yes I missed out on a lot due to it - I hardly went to any matches for the 3 years - but at least other than the student loan I am not left in debt now as a result.
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| My nephew lived at home and didn't have a car or a booze habit. Three years studying art and 10 quid in debt.
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| Quote ="Dave Heron's Moustache"Breaking my rule about responding on a thread started by someone called Lord Magoon...
If you want to reduce University fees then we have to stop letting thousands of thick people go to University.
Discuss......'"
Bingo.
University at one point actually meant something. Now anybody can go to Uni and get a degree by doing little more than getting bladdered every night.
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| Quote ="Cala Millor Rhino"i hate to say it, but there are loads of part-time jobs about thats what people who don't want to end up in debt do, thats what i did!'"
are you assuming that i graduated with an overdraft? i worked some crazy hours in order to be able to avoid the levels of debt some of my friends are in.
Quote i'm sorry, but i've been there, done it, worked through uni and come out without an over-draft! anyone who comes out with a sob story is either lazy or too interested in gettting pi$$ed to work!
no sympathy!'"
most people wouldnt describe there university overdraft as a sob story though. the level of debt that most students take on has been normalised into the university lifestyle.
and well done for getting back to your stereotyping
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| Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"Bingo.
University at one point actually meant something. Now anybody can go to Uni and get a degree by doing little more than getting bladdered every night.'"
Actually I got a degree by getting bladdered every night, but I was a smart @r$e capable of learning under those conditions. Also beer was 50p a pint and I got a grant. It has prepared me perfectly for the job I do now where I have to travel and sit in bars with sales people and customers and carry on a sensible conversation after five steins of Bavarias finest (or like last night eat and drink at one of London's finest resteraunts and manage to talk for 4 hours to a potential customer I last met 20 years ago, where my final words were - " Mike, you are a complete t***"icon_wink.gif.
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| Quote ="J O N N Y"and maybe you cant sympathise with living within an overdraft, but there isnt much alternative for most students.'" I wouldn't say I get much help from families, unlike quite alot who lived in halls last year. One lad (and he now works around 20 hours a week)in the 2nd year still gets 300quid from his Dad every month, just like he did the first year. Others got around 150/200 a month off parents.
I was made to work, wasn't allowed to get an over draft (If I did, I would have to start helping pay the bills).
Not got a loan this year either, but I can support the evidence that people do spend most of their student loans on luxuries such as going out, buying designer clothes, or paying for a summer holiday.
Without sounding like a boring fart, the money left over on my 1st years loans went straight into my ISA.
One lad I know had 3 over drafts the 1st year and his attidude was "I don't mind been around 25grand in debt after 3 years because When I graduate I'll earn loads, and pay it back easily"
I hate getting sterotyped with students but I'll laugh at all those when they are still paying thousands back in over a decades time.
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| Quote ="Invincible"I wouldn't say I get much help from families, unlike quite alot who lived in halls last year. One lad (and he now works around 20 hours a week)in the 2nd year still gets 300quid from his Dad every month, just like he did the first year. Others got around 150/200 a month off parents.
I was made to work, wasn't allowed to get an over draft (If I did, I would have to start helping pay the bills).
Not got a loan this year either, but I can support the evidence that people do spend most of their student loans on luxuries such as going out, buying designer clothes, or paying for a summer holiday.
Without sounding like a boring fart, the money left over on my 1st years loans went straight into my ISA.
One lad I know had 3 over drafts the 1st year and his attidude was "I don't mind been around 25grand in debt after 3 years because When I graduate I'll earn loads, and pay it back easily"
I hate getting sterotyped with students but I'll laugh at all those when they are still paying thousands back in over a decades time.'"
i think we had a similar uni experience and also have a similar outlook on what the best way to approach university is, probably due to our parents
but your argument that Quote One lad I know had 3 over drafts the 1st year and his attitude was "I don't mind been around 25grand in debt after 3 years because When I graduate I'll earn loads, and pay it back easily"'"
really asserts my point, that we now live in a society where 25 grand of debt by the age of 25 is the norm.
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| Quote ="J O N N Y"
that we now live in a society where 25 grand of debt by the age of 25 is the norm.'"
Or alternatively .. we live in a society where around 50% of school leavers go on and do a degree qualification and get a higher education.
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| Quote ="lainey"In 2010 all Unis will have the opportunity to raise their fees to £5,000. All Unis will be increasing their fees in 2010 not just Leeds Met.'"
What is this right? Since when?
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| i agree about thick people at uni, but nothings new with the drinking culture. i go to an old boys event every year for the uni rugby team and the old boys are worse than the new lads - the new lads cant afford to live it up like they did when student unions were doin silly prices.
as for the carnegie trust, are you sure about that? i heard recently leeds met were in tons of debt due to their investment in sport and new buildings.
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| Quote ="Dave Heron's Moustache"Breaking my rule about responding on a thread started by someone called Lord Magoon...
If you want to reduce University fees then we have to stop letting thousands of thick people go to University.
Discuss......'"
Nice one twice.
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| Quote ="Lord Magoon"Nice one twice.'"
I now find you compelling. You'll have to live with the burdon m'lud.
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| Quote ="Invincible"I wouldn't say I get much help from families, unlike quite alot who lived in halls last year. One lad (and he now works around 20 hours a week)in the 2nd year still gets 300quid from his Dad every month, just like he did the first year. Others got around 150/200 a month off parents.
I was made to work, wasn't allowed to get an over draft (If I did, I would have to start helping pay the bills).
Not got a loan this year either, but I can support the evidence that people do spend most of their student loans on luxuries such as going out, buying designer clothes, or paying for a summer holiday.
Without sounding like a boring fart, the money left over on my 1st years loans went straight into my ISA.
One lad I know had 3 over drafts the 1st year and his attidude was "I don't mind been around 25grand in debt after 3 years because When I graduate I'll earn loads, and pay it back easily"
I hate getting sterotyped with students but I'll laugh at all those when they are still paying thousands back in over a decades time.'"
See I live in my overdraft, on the premise that I'm having the best time of my life so why not have fun while I can?
Granted I'll be working in the summer to put the money back.
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| Quote ="Jord Rhinosaur"See I live in my overdraft, on the premise that I'm having the best time of my life so why not have fun while I can?
Granted I'll be working in the summer to put the money back.'"
Here's a little secret some of us old boys often keep to ourselves.....you have a long life and your best times are not over at 21..
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| Quote ="Dave Heron's Moustache"Or alternatively .. we live in a society where around 50% of school leavers go on and do a degree qualification and get a higher education.'"
thats irrelevant, the point CMR and Invincible were making that is it is possible to live within your means whilst at university, and this should be applicable no matter what number of students read for a degree.
the point i was making was that massive levels of debt are now considered the norm, again, no matter what number of students read for a degree.
however, there are students, one a regular poster on here, that seem to have gone to uni for the criac, and having graduated are doing fu[ick[/i all with themselves, and their degrees now, but i suspect that the individual on here doesnt have massive amounts of debt anyway.
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| Quote ="J O N N Y"thats irrelevant, the point CMR and Invincible were making that is it is possible to live within your means whilst at university, and this should be applicable no matter what number of students read for a degree.
the point i was making was that massive levels of debt are now considered the norm, again, no matter what number of students read for a degree.
'"
Actually the number of students does matter, because it all has to be paid for by someone. If the top 7% of students go to University after school then the taxpayer can foot the bill and pay a grant and housing benefit etc. and look at it as an investment in the future economy of the country. When 50% go on to higher education it's not an investment in the future economy of the country, and the taxpayer can't afford to subsidise academicaly week individuals who should be and would be better served developeing in a different environment. So hence no grant, tuition fees, high rents etc....
I would say that 40% of students at university are not where they should be. Universities were designed to take the academicaly gifted and maximise that potential. Not to take anyone with one grade E at A level and give them a "degree" at the expense of taxpayers.
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| Quote ="Dave Heron's Moustache"Actually the number of students does matter, because it all has to be paid for by someone. If the top 7% of students go to University after school then the taxpayer can foot the bill and pay a grant and housing benefit etc. and look at it as an investment in the future economy of the country. When 50% go on to higher education it's not an investment in the future economy of the country, and the taxpayer can't afford to subsidise academicaly week individuals who should be and would be better served developeing in a different environment. So hence no grant, tuition fees, high rents etc....
I would say that 40% of students at university are not where they should be. Universities were designed to take the academicaly gifted and maximise that potential. Not to take anyone with one grade E at A level and give them a "degree" at the expense of taxpayers.'"
Thats all fair enough, it really is, but that isnt how it is, nor how it will probably be ever again. universities will accept anyone who is willing to pay, and with the debt culture that we live in, that is just about anyone who applies.
as noted above, fees will rise to a minimum of £5000 from next summer, but applications wont decline, because it can all be paid for later, maybe even with a summer job...
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| Quote ="J O N N Y"thats irrelevant, the point CMR and Invincible were making that is it is possible to live within your means whilst at university, and this should be applicable no matter what number of students read for a degree.
the point i was making was that massive levels of debt are now considered the norm, again, no matter what number of students read for a degree.
however, there are students, one a regular poster on here, that seem to have gone to uni for the criac, and having graduated are doing fu[ick[/i all with themselves, and their degrees now, but i suspect that the individual on here doesnt have massive amounts of debt anyway.'"
It's nigh on impossible to live at uni without going in to an overdraft. I was left with £112 of my last loan after my rent was paid, how is that supposed to last 3 months until the next installment?
Even with a job (yes I'm now working) I'm majorly overdrawn and I don't go out THAT much.
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| Quote ="Jord Rhinosaur"It's nigh on impossible to live at uni without going in to an overdraft. I was left with £112 of my last loan after my rent was paid, how is that supposed to last 3 months until the next installment?
Even with a job (yes I'm now working) I'm majorly overdrawn and I don't go out THAT much.'"
i agree, i stayed debt free owing to working a ridiculous amount of hours and living at home.
the average student (no pun intended) isnt able to study without debt, but you, like most others have to accept a massive amount of debt to earn your degree.
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| Quote ="J O N N Y"i agree, i stayed debt free owing to working a ridiculous amount of hours and living at home.
the average student (no pun intended) isnt able to study without debt, but you, like most others have to accept a massive amount of debt to earn your degree.'"
Which then leads to the debate of whether or not it's worth it. Personally I'm getting loads of work experience in all sectors of sport trying to enhance my CV for when I go graduate, but I'm still thinking it'll be hard to find a job.
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| Quote ="Jord Rhinosaur"Which then leads to the debate of whether or not it's worth it. Personally I'm getting loads of work experience in all sectors of sport trying to enhance my CV for when I go graduate, but I'm still thinking it'll be hard to find a job.'"
because of the education you will have or because of the economic climate?
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| Quote ="J O N N Y"because of the education you will have or because of the economic climate?'"
Both I'm guessing, although I suspect things will have picked up by then.
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