Come on tvoc, you can't put such sensible accurate posts like that on here.

Anyone would think they are on the wrong forum.

There are other things as well, I mentioned it briefly on another thread when statto was analysing Bailey's contribution by reference to Opta. On Saturday Bailey won posession for us four times by diving on a loose ball, winning a penalty, intercepting a pass and forcing a knock on with a strong challenge.

Again, I'm not sure that is recognised in the stats but taking posession from you opponents four times is very positive contribution.

He was one of few players who managed to secure us field position.

Interesting to see Ben Harrison get sucked in a couple of times again, you'd have thought they'd have learnt Grand Final lessons by now.

Unless you can point to a statistic showing this occuring then I won't accept that it did occurr.

No can do, my opinion was solely based on viewing the game in the real world.

Even if I had a stat burp up my sleeve....I'd leave it there.

Soz.

Slowing down the play the ball is one of the most important aspects of the game (as alluded to by TVOC above). Its not mentioned in OPTA either but when its used to defend a player, it is dismissed by many people. Why is that?

I can't speak for "many people" only myself.

I don't necessarily dismiss it but in respect of said "a player" I don't think he does it as much as his supporters claim and I don't think it's enough to make up for his lack of effort in one area that is easily quantifiable by reference to stats, carries.

Slowing the ptb down and missing few tackles is not imo and should not be deemed good enough for a Prop in our 1st choice 17.
I look at the overall picture when reviewing performance and again imo as the Champions team and Club we are then certain players within this squad/team aren't good enough OR offer enough to warrant week in week out selection irrespective of performance.

Slowing the play the ball down is all about tackling technique. Either twisting the player onto his back perferably with legs facing sideways or towards the defending team, or getting into an upwright wrestle with multiple defenders allowing the defence time to set. If you have outright domination of the collision the ref will shout dominant and allow you a few extra seconds of lying on.

I've not kept track of the exact arc of the discussion but this is one area i feel leeds often struggle. They never got a grip on this against warrington. Lying on and messing around at the PTB and just generally f*cking around after losing the collision does not constitute slowing the PTB, you are just testing the refs patience for penalties. This is what many of our forwards wind up doing, JJB is one of the worst for it. Leeds could have been penalised alot more on saturday.

It also seems to be something that leeds either have a grip of, or they don't. If they start the game against saints and they don't have a grip on the ruck it's not something they ever seem to able to turn around during the game, and unless the opposition cough up loads of posession or penalties, they end up consistently on the back foot territory wise throught the game. This is what happened against warrington.

its the second or 3rd man into The tackle which takes a neutral tackle into a defensive win. Krone does well here, as does bailey. If you wrap a man when he's stood up and bring him down slowly onto his back you earn several more seconds than even a dominant hit. Where we go wrong is like you say losing the collision and then trying to get as many seconds messing on the floor. Jjb is by far the worst but others are pretty poor in this area.

It's it enough to justify someone a spot in the team, certainly not, but it adds a lot to the shape of a game

Meters per carry is also not a start that I hold much by, because actually an extra 50cm of carry makes very little difference over a game. People winnning a collision and playing the ball quickly has much more affect than getting and extra 2 or 3 meters walked after contact. Of Our props bailey is probably best at this with kylie probably second. With someone like Burrow at dummy half we should really try and do this more, is worked well for saints for a long time

I feel in the first 10 minutes against saints, you are going to know whether we are going to struggle. If they haven't got a grip on the ruck, roby will be able to have a field day up the middle and it's going to be an almighty struggle for leeds. It's not something I've really seen us change in a game. If we aren't controlling the play the ball early, we tend to struggle with it the entie game. This is going to be the key to beating saints.

We seem achieve quick play the balls when the likes of JJB and ablett are brought into play on an angle, they can often use footwork before the collision which puts the defence slightly off balance and allows them to his the ground quickly. Alot of burrow's scoots seem to be off the back of a JJB hit up.

Lueluai and peacock seem to be the metre makers and the attractions. They tend to make metres after the collision and suck more defeners in, winding up with a bunch of defenders who leave the ruck one by one. Ideally they do the first few hits ups then the 3rd and 4th phase is where we get to ground fast.

Once a team gets a full on its very hard to stop. One dominant carry or quick play means the next carry is into a retreating defense, and it builds. The kicker has more time to pick his kick and pins the team so who then struggle to clear their lines

Who wants this one? Bloodbath? Tad?

Some coach once said its better to move on a player one season too early than one season too late.
Don't forget age is a very crafty thief , he takes a little each day. Some of our senior players will be very senior come play off time next September . Methinks some tough decisions will have to be taken in the close season.

Josh Charnley

at my age it would be nice

I really should check my posts when using a mobile

Too obvious for me, as you know 'subtle' is my thing........

thats one thing i've never been described as............

I think perhaps you should as in addition to replacing McGuire with McCoy earlier this week you've now seemingly signed a replacement for Kirke and there's a limit to how far you can go before losing credibility.

For future deciphering of The Eagle's posts, here is our squad for the Saints game run through Android's autocorrect:

Carmaker

BUB
Watkins
Moon
Hall

Winfield
McGuire

Julie
Burrow
Peacock
Tablet
Delayed
JIB

Bailey
Singleton
Kidney
Wycliffe

Clarkson
A church

I should use a proper computer rather than using my Ablett

Let me take The Eagle to dinner and a show. My treat.