Don't think anyone at Headingley expected a seamless transition after the loss of such great players hence the fans have been brilliant. We knew it was going to be tough. Other factors out of our hands played a part too but we've had to get on with it! Mac summed it up perfectly when he said "No one feels sorry for us!". Hopefully we can put on some good displays in the middle 8's and keep our SL place. If it's looking dodgy we can just bring in some big name signings and break the "spirit" of the salary cap! It's been done before I believe!

Meh....if we'd have had an average season hanging around 6th/7th no one would've been too surprised and pretty much the same end result of no trophies. Did sound a bit cliche when McDermott said it during the year but just maybe going through this might be a good learning experience for the players in the long run rather than say doing a St Helens who might not think they're too far off looking at the table but have been very poor in reality. I'd say those currently at the top of the table will be more worried about Leeds getting their act together in 2017 than being concerned about Saints next year being a threat.

I think like Hull and Warrington used being well out of reach of the top 4 come Super 8's time to approach this year quickly and strongly I think what we've gone through will be a great motivator during pre-season to start the 2017 season strongly.

The fans have been more than brilliant - home attendances are actually up on last year.

I'm not getting too carried away. I thought both teams were poor to be honest last night and Wigan did have a fair few missing, i expected us to win given the respective line ups.that said, it was nice to see us dig in and that was a two point win that would have been a twenty point loss a couple of months ago so its a platform.

I don't think we need wholesale changes. A quality half back, maybe a backrower but generally the squad still has a lot of quality within it. The biggest change we could do with still lies in the coaching team. I think Mac has taken us as far as he can and we need a new regime, new voices and ideas to refresh things moving forward. I don't think this will happen now with recent results, and the likely cruising of the middle 8s though.

I think frustrated might be a more appropriate word.

And let's not get carried away just yet, the middle 8s will be a tough experience and we need to respect the teams we play.

I'm not either! As some have pointed out to make the eight would have papered over a few cracks.

We need to work harder in the eights to avoid the drop but if we can do that then we can make the correct adjustments as a club to move forward.

Relieved about what?

Leeds still have a middle 8's tournament to get through.

Is Lowes still around on the coaching staff? In addition to players coming back, the attitude for defence appears to have returned when he did.

It depends how old you are, what mindset you have, and how stable you are financially. As someone that saw Leeds win one piddling Premiership in his early years, the last 12 years have been blissful. I have the memories to cherish, and can also empathise with clubs that have little or no success. I will renew my season ticket next year because there is not a financial burden on myself, and I love my club.

I will be annoyed if we finish this year strongly and GH doesn't look at some major changes for next year as a result. For me that's a bigger long-term worry than the Middle 8s.

I think we will blitz the middle 8's and GH will paint things as business as usual after the list of excuses why we were so bad for 3/4 of the year (see William for the list

). So no, i don't think anything will change too much, which doesn't fill me with a great deal of confidence for next year although i don't foresee a year anywhere near as trying as this.

i will add this. Although i feel we could do with a coaching change and have felt it was needed since the end of 2014, or was coming at least, On the flip side McDermott has always had credit in the bank and it would be nice to see him turn it full circle next year. if he is to remain as head coach, and although it is not what i would prefer to see, i would accept he has earned the right to have one more go.

I agree that what you've painted is the most likely outcome, but McDermott surely couldn't survive another poor season - by that I mean anything other than top 4. So far he's only done that in two years out of 6 as coach. We've won trophies, which has earned him a lot of credit, but his regular season record apart from last year has been well below par and his win/loss ratio is down with Lance and Powell, and well below Tony Smith and McClennan.

Some of the responsibility for this record belongs with the senior players (including Sinfield and Peacock) who seemed to have developed the mindset that scraping into the play offs was enough as they'd turn it around when it matters. Last year nobody knew much except that you had to keep up with the leaders to have a real chance of winning the competition, and Sinfield and Peacock retiring no doubt focused attention on a weekly basis.

Rather than back up last year, this year we seem to have reverted to the view that things would somehow come right in the end. When you throw in the injuries and loss of experience (which in previous years would have been enough to blag a few wins even when playing badly) its probably not surprising that we are where we are as a result. There have been a couple of spells where the team has clearly not given anything like its best this year, and that has cost us a spot even in the top 8.

IMO the odd poor game is entirely understandable, but responsibility for multiple games on the trot and just awful capitulations like KR and Cas at home (how unbeatable have they looked before or since they put 50 on us BTW?) has to lie with the coach.

Perhaps most worryingly I don't have any sense of a plan to rebuild the team into one capable of winning trophies. We just seem to be signing players on an ad hoc basis, filling gaps as they develop. Segeyaro may turn out to be awesome, but that wasn't planned, just dumb luck. The Sinfield era team is gone and will never return - its time to create a new team. I just don't think McDermott is the man to do that, but if he stays I hope he proves me wrong.

Keep Segyaro, sign an organising half of at least Sowards quality, and pay proper attention to our developing players when gearing up for the season (Baldwinso, Smith, and the polish guy especially) instead totally ignoring their development as we have seemed to have done in the last few years

Do these things and he will have a squad capable of at least challenging

Missing out on Gale was a big blow but hopefully GH has something in the works

I don't think we should underestimate the impact that Segeyaro has made. Leeds play with a very open and 'off the cuff' style, we're very expansive and improvising. To do this we need space and time which is exactly what Segeyaro has given us.

Retaining Chicko or finding a suitable replacement must be paramount to GH.

An extremely toxic element has been removed.

I'll spell it out because it hasn't sunk in with quite a number of fans.

H A R D A K E R

The toxic element above still retains a fanbase of fellow morons who hope he'll return to the club

I hope so

So we are now eliminating - SPOTY, the floods, No Gym, The Kiwis etc........ ?

Those above are reasons often cited by club lackeys and sycophants.

Have I ever resembled a club lackey or sycophant?

of course not.

look, I am no defender of Hardaker, the lad appears to have little between his lug holes and the club are likely better off without him long term, but i feel its unfair to label him the toxic reason Leeds have been so abysmal. if we had been running with the same team that was taking beating after beating a few weels ago since Hardaker left i would see reason to agree with you, but there is more evidence Our upturn in results have coincided more with quite a few returnees, the addition of Segeyaro and a bit of luck to get the right side of close games.

You could also point out that we won the 2 games before he left and lost the first game after he left
But that wouldn't get in the way of good old troll post would it



You have been oddly quiet William since our recent upturn in form?

Leeds have won 4 out of the last 5 games. Why are you here? Come back when they've started losing more games again.

Personally I'm not a big believer in coincidences.
Our upturn in fortunes happens at the same time as getting our training ground back, Hardaker leaving, Segeyaro arriving and top class players returning from injury. Some of these events are obviously more influential than others. I'm not convinced Hardaker was as toxic as some seem to think however you would really need an insiders knowledge to know this.
Whatever the reasons lets hope we can carry some form forward and win the middle 8's, anything less would be a compound on a miserable season.
The game against KR on Thursday showed that we are not going to have it all our own way as the intensity of SL survival hots up, that game was only for the pleasure of having an extra home game!

think I would agree with all this. I do believe significant changes have to be made for next season for us to challenge. not lots of changes but big decisions

Also not a coincidence that Lowes coming back to take some defensive sessions has resulted in a upturn in technique, structure and enthusiasm.

Probably a few Bulls fans this afternoon wishing they'd kept him around.

Which perhaps is telling us that it might be the coaching structure which is the problem rather than the coach himself.

Perhaps McDermott needs a late period Alex Ferguson role, at the top of the food chain, but with a lot of technical support around him.

McDermott has brought through a lot of players not only at Leeds but London aswell, stuck with a few like Kienhorst who have thrived despite people telling us he would never be an SL player, lifted trophies,