granted maybe a little dramatic, but if its leeds & saints again for the next few years (or even just leeds) the general public & fans of the other clubs are going to get bored pretty quickly. There was enough moaning when it was the big 4/5, atm its down to the big 2, which is not a healthy position for a sport to be in. For rugby league to move forward in this country, we really need it to be the big 10/12 if not even the big 14. Which we then should be able to build a credible international team off the back of

The only ones who should be worrying about the death of the sport are those who cant get near Leeds and Saints. It's up to them to catch up as they've already had a leg up.

I believe that the current overall downturn in supporter attendance can be directly attributed to the current economic climate and nothing to do with the 2 team dominance that we are currently seeing.

I’m with Gareth and Danny on this one – the sport is strong enough to sustain a period of 1 or 2 club dominance and while we’re at the top long let it stay that way.

It won’t last that long – as the saying goes “when you’re at the top there’s only one way you can go” and it is just a matter of time before Leeds and Saints do a Bradford (but God forbid not as drastically) and slip to mediocrity.

But while the sun shines let us sunbath.

Spot on.

Anyway, looking at the table of championships I'd like at least 6 more before our golden era is done



(I can live with being second to Wigan the impact of their own golden era is going to take decades to wipe out)

Not all of them have benevolent millionaires and well qualified financial personnel, good fan bases and marketable brands to help them develop the necessary infrastructure to begin to grow.

The leg up's are going to have to continue for a while yet before you see other clubs repreating what Leeds and Saints have done.

It's all very well picking on "Out of Townie, glory hunting bandwagonners" but the truth remains the same. Once supporters get their heads around the idea that a visit from Leeds and Saints is 1) More likely to be on Sky and 2) Is going to result in a kicking, then I should imagine they shall make the sensible decision given the current economic climate that for a family of four the £60 plus sundries is best spent elsewhere. You don't need many £60's to represent a lot of lost revenue for the clubs in involved.

It's nice to see Leeds doing well. And unlike some of the more regular posters on here I have done my apprenticeship of supporting a dour Leeds team in the rain and snow on the wrong side of the Pennines. I have done my time watching sodden Alliance matches. What I can also remember thinking is why the hell was I doing it when all the available silverware with the exception of the Yorkshire cup was all going one way? And even then Leeds seemed determined to let Cas and Fax have that too.

You may feel that that's just tough titties on the opposition fans, but whilst you're bathing in your reflected glory it makes it harder for those of us trying to get new blood into the game. There is already a feeling that unless you play for the "big 4" you're never going to win anything. So there is no incentive for local players to play for their local clubs. They all want to leave and go and play elsewhere. So it makes it hard to keep them in academies long enough to make first grade.

With the greatest of respect, that is claptrap.

What leg ups' do you refer to? We have an even playing field. We're capped. Leeds may have a wealthy backer but it is a lazy and incorrect assumption that his backing has resulted in our success. He hasn't subsidised us like he did the Tykes. What he did was put in place excellent, and stringent, business plans.

We're not the ones that have breached the salary cap, remember that. Many clubs without a wealthy backer have done so. If clubs want to follow Leeda and St Helens blueprint they should not be splashing the cash, unless it involves a serious investment in junior development. How did Mr Whelans' approach aid Wigan?

I find it weird you would say teams getting a kicking from Leeds and Saints would put fans off after a season where many teams actually beat us. Did Salford fans flock to the Willows in their droves after they beat Leeds and Saints this year? Oh, and Salford, with their lousy crowds, wealthy backer and potentially massive fan base appear to contradict your assumptions.

Who are the "big four" that you speak of that are going to win everything? Does it include Warrington or Huddersfield? Does it include Catalan or Wigan?

Why would local lads be put off signing for a club because of Leeds and St Helen's success? Leeds and St helens are a shining beacon of how you should utilise young English players. If more clubs followed suit young English players would have better career paths within the game.

The new up to date figures to reflect and include the 2009 Final

Why can't you tell me? What are these leg ups you speak of?

Indeed but that is not the picture you were painting. You were talking about Sugar Daddies buying success. That is not the path either Leeds or St Helens have trodden.

The pioneers of Sl and one of its' most succesful clubs, the Bulls, have NEVER had a suggar daddy.

Hmmm. So you've named 4 out of 14 clubs that will, according to you, not win anything. Then you say the bottom half, presumably, the bottom 7? Seems very confusing? Still waiting to hear who this big four are?

Ok, stop spouting baseless, overly dramatic ramblings then.

Is there any evidence that this is occurring? Are you talking local amateur players or young SL players?

Where are all these talented hot SL players migrating to St Helens and Leeds that you speak of?

Lets look at one of the hottest properties in the game right now, Richie Myler. He happily signed for and played for Salford. They decided to sell him, very profitably, but his destination wasn't Leeds or St Helens, it was Warrington. Were they in your big 4 btw?

BTW, have you heard of the RFL's service area regulations? Where do they fit into your predictions of doom and gloom that will befall us if Leeds should win next year's GF?

Cheers

Good of the game.

That it?

"Good of the game".

Well, you have me convinced. I withdraw all my previous questions and concerns. I am converted.

The game will indeed be damaged and juniors will indeed refuse to play for their local clubs if Leeds win another GF.

We can not, nay must not, allow this to happen. Any Leeds fans who derive any sense of satisfaction from such happenings should be burned at the stake for heresy.

It's back with Ryan Bailey making his 200th Appearance for Leeds if he plays tonight.

He will become the 8th Leeds player to do so in the SL Era (All Comps) and all the previous seven still remain at the club in one capacity or another.

Jones-Buchanan will shortly become the 9th, he currently stands on 198

love this tvoc cheers

No worries, you and me both.

Here's one from early season that slipped under the radar.

Ali Lauitiiti has now become Leeds' most prolific bench warmer of the SL Era. Another title to sit alongside his most Appearances by an Antipodean.

Leeds Substitute Appearances (SL Era - All Comps):

1 - Ali Lauitiiti 103
2 - Jamie Mathiou 100
3 - Willie Poching 89
4 - Barrie McDermott 78
5 - Ryan Bailey 74
6 - Rob Burrow 72
=7 - Jamie Jones-Buchanan 61
=7 - Nick Scruton 61
9 - Danny Ward 54
10 - Wayne McDonald 52

I would guess by the way that Sub are used, that Ali is the greatest replacement ever ?

All those totals are 'Substitute Appearances' where they took part in the game at some stage off the bench.

Here's a complete list of 'Non Playing Substitute' appearances for Leeds in the SL Era (All Comps):

3 - Marvin Golden, Adam Hughes, Marcus St Hilaire

2 - Andy Kirk, Danny McGuire, Simon Worrall

1 - Danny Allan, Gavin Brown, Rob Burrow, Mark Calderwood, Bradley Clyde, Anthony Gibbons, David Gibbons, Damian Gibson, Iestyn Harris, Dean Lawford, Gareth Morton, Jason Netherton, Jamie Peacock, Karl Pratt, Gareth Raynor, John Riley, Marcus Vassilakopoulos, Chev Walker

John Riley??? Presume that must have been in the first couple of years of SL as that's the only name that means nothing to me.

John Riley was a 'flame' haired (some might say ginger but not me, an acquaintence of John's reads these boards) and I wouldn't want to potentially upset him. I once saw him upset at a Colts/Academy game up at Lawnswood, it wasn't a pleasant sight and probably fully deserving of the red card that followed. But I digress.

John Riley was a Non Playing Sub V Warrington in Leeds' inaugural regular round fixture at the birth of SL, 31st March 1996.

He had made his Leeds debut in the Centenary Season that preceded SL1 on the 19th December 1995 V London Broncos at Headingley.

Riley raises an interesting question, is he a Leeds SL Era player or not? His only time on the team-sheet was as a non playing sub which means he has no actual Appearances in official statistics during the SL Era.

What to do?

Next opponents - Huddersfield Giants

Leeds SL Era Record V Huddersfield

All Comps: All Fixtures
Played 24, Won 22, Drawn 0, Lost 2, Pts For 909, Pts Agst 374 ..... Avg Scr (38-16) ..... 92%

All Comps: Away
Played 12, Won 11, Drawn 0, Lost 1, Pts For 459, Pts Agst 186 ..... Avg Scr (38-16) ..... 92%

SL Reg Rds:
Played 23, Won 22, Drawn 0, Lost 1, Pts For 897, Pts Agst 344 ..... Avg Scr (39-15) ..... 96%

SL Reg Rds: Away: As above (2nd top)

__________

Leeds' Biggest Win: 86 - 6 (Headingley - 16th July 1999)
Leeds' Biggest Win At Huddersfield: 72 - 16 (McAlpine - 13th Sept 199icon_cool.gif
Leeds' Widest Winning Margin: As above (top)
Leeds' Widest Winning Margin At Huddersfield: As Above (2nd Top)
__________

Huddersfield's Biggest Win: 30 - 24 (McAlpine - 12th July 2003)
.............................. : 30 - 12 (Odsal - 30th July 2006)
Huddersfield's Biggest Win At Huddersfield: As Above (Top)
Huddersfield's Widest Winning Margin: As above (2nd Top)
Huddersfield's Biggest Winning Margin At Huddersfield: As above (Top)


Brian McClennan's Leeds record V Huddersfield:
Played 4, Won 4, Drawn 0, Lost 0, Pts For 130, Pts Agst 36, Avg Scr (33-9), 100%

Brian McClennan's Leeds record at Huddersfield: All Comps, All Opponents
Played 3, Won 2, Drawn 0, Lost 1, Pts For 80, Pts Agst 42, Avg Scr (27-14), 67%

Nathan Brown's Huddersfield record V Leeds:
Played 2, Won 0, Drawn 0, Lost 2, Pts For 18, Pts Agst 54, Avg Scr (9-27), 0%

Leeds' W/D/L record V Huddersfield in sequence:

W W W W W W W W W W =#FF0000L W W W W W W =#FF0000L W W W W W W


__________

Two players will pass personal milestones if they play on Sunday:

Jamie Jones-Buchanan will make his 200th Appearance (All Comps) becoming the 9th player to do so for Leeds while Kylie Leuluai will be making his 100th Appearance (All Comps) at the same time, becoming the 28th player to do so for Leeds in the SL Era.

With some of the attention being focused on Richard Sliverwood's performance this weekend here's his record for both Leeds and Huddersfield in the SL Regular Rounds.

Leeds with Silverwood:

Played 34, Won 25, Drawn 0, Lost 9 ..... 74%

Huddersfield with Silverwood:

Played 36, Won 18, Drawn 1, Lost 17 ..... 51%

Huddersfield At Home with Silverwood:

Played 18, Won 10, Drawn 1, Lost 7 ..... 58%

The only time Silverwood has controlled this particular fixture was in the corresponding match last season with Leeds being on the right side of the result 6 - 34 despite narrowly losing the penalty count 7 - 8.

An interesting stat cropped up for any Wakefield fans out there in that their side has yet to beat Huddersfield with Silverwood in charge after six attempts.

tvoc.

Silverwood was in charge of the 2006 CC semi at Odsal ([url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/challenge_cup/5210858.stmlink[/url)

This means with Silverwood in the middle it is 1 - 1.

They won again with Mr Child last night

Yes indeed but not under the specific terms of reference I set for the Silverwood stats above:



So Challenge Cup and SL Play-Offs were excluded from the comparison.



Quite so. Wakefield's SL Regular Round 100% record with MR Child in the middle remains intact.

Next opponents - Hull KR

Leeds SL Era Record V Hull KR

All Comps: All Fixtures
Played 9, Won 8, Drawn 0, Lost 1, Pts For 259, Pts Agst 120 ..... Avg Scr (29-13) ..... 89%

All Comps: Headingley:
Played 5, Won 5, Drawn 0, Lost 0, Pts For 166, Pts Agst 56 ..... Avg Scr (33-11) ..... 100%

__________

Leeds' Biggest Win: 44 - 4 (Headingley - 22nd Feb 2002 - Challenge Cup)
......................: 44 - 8 (Headingley - 18th September 2009 - SL Play-Offs)
Leeds' Biggest Win At Headingley: As Above
Leeds' Widest Winning Margin: As above (Top)
Leeds' Widest Winning Margin At Headingley: As Above (Top)
__________

Hull KR's Biggest Win: 22 - 20 (Craven Park - 10th March 2007)
As they haven't recorded a win yet in the SL Era in this Away fixture
Hull KR's Smallest Defeat At Headingley: 12 - 20 (2nd Feb 200icon_cool.gif


Hull KR's Widest Winning Margin: As above (top)
Hull KR's Narrowest Losing Margin At Headingley: As above (bottom)


Brian McClennan's Leeds record V Hull KR: (All Comps)
Played 5, Won 5, Drawn 0, Lost 0, Pts For 143, Pts Agst 66, Avg Scr (29-13), 100%

Justin Morgan's Hull KR record V Leeds: (All Comps)
Played 8, Won 1, Drawn 0, Lost 7, Pts For 116, Pts Agst 215, Avg Scr (15-27), 13%

(In addition to the above Justin Morgan was also the Toulouse coach in the CC-SF played on the 31st July 2005, which Leeds Won 56-1icon_cool.gif

Leeds W/D/L record V Hull KR in sequence:

W =#FF0000L W W W W W W W