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| Drinkwater looks very much the next world class Australian half back but to compare him to Lilley is somewhat unfair and unnecessary. If you had judged the merits of Kevin Sinfield by comparison with say Darren Lockyer (slight difference in age I know but the contrasts are similar), you would have judged Sinfield to be relatively worthless.
Lilley has strength, reasonable timing, reasonable feet and can creatively pass the ball (which more than you can say to about George Williams). He appears to lack pace, which will be a hindrance to his progression but the aforementioned Mr. Sinfield managed to get past that.
If Lilley hasn't found his niche in a few years time, I'd be worried but for now, he needs to learn his trade.
In my opinion, one of the reasons we are failing to produce high quality creative players is purely down to coaching and a willingness to persevere with young talent. Is it a coincidence that Hodgson looks so much better in the NRL? of the Burgess brothers?I don't think so. In between William's leg pulling exercises, he sites the lack of reserve team football as a factor in the lack of standards. Along with the general lack of coaching standards, I would agree with him.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"This seems to be an entire thread of people complaining about slagging Lilley off, in which nobody has slagged Lilley off.
Classic Southstander.'"
Except the opening post of course criticising his speed and questioning if he must be a smoker?
And now Tvoc's is in "I've written him off before so I've stubbornly got to stick to that view" mode. Remember him being very critical of the lad as a goal kicker for missing his conversion in the WCC, wonder what he thinks of Lilley's kick percentage now?
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| Quote ="tvoc"Have you seen Melbourne's likely future half-back post the Cooper Cronk era a lad called Scott Drinkwater?
He would be an NRL equivalent to Jordan Lilley and IMO he (Drinkwater) is the real deal. It's really scary how mediocrity is increasingly the acceptable standard in SL.'"
Judge Lilley when he's spent time playing next to McGuire. He already looks very promising imo, but if you're talking about the NRL look at 19-year-old Jackson Hastings who struggled terribly when he was playing with another inexperienced half but suddenly looked the business when Mitchell Pearce came back. I haven't seen Drinkwater, but if you put Lilley behind the Melbourne pack and next to Cam Smith (the real one) and Blake Green in a Bellamy-coached side then I imagine he'd look pretty good to you too.
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| Quote ="Biff Tannen"He is full of confidence for a 19 year old, he is mature beyond his years. I try not to pick his game apart, he is going to make mistakes and sure, he lacks a bit of pace, but i try to imagine what this lad could be like with 100 games plus under his belt at 22/23 years old he could be top notch.'"
Agree. In a tough situation he has produced a lot more than I thought he would do this year and to be honest was capable of. Deserves the chance to show more as year goes on and think he will get a gig with McGuire subject to fitness. Sutcliffe off bench. My Mick shoebottom ref was probably an unfair comparison for sutcliffe
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| Some perspective is required here.
Super League playing standards are dreadful and have been getting worse year on year IMO since around 2006.
A huge factor in this slide alongside a Salary Cap stuck in 1999 figures is the disappearance of a lot of ex-NRL players of a decent standard and, more importantly, the complete disappearance of NRL standard assistant coaches.
Given the current diabolical playing standards in Super League, no amount of Kirkstall flooding, loss of familiar facilities, ordinary coaching, loss of three geriatrics from the squad, training alongside sun-tan injecting mincers, Whipping Boy SL Rabble Rousing emotional interviews and speeches from JJB attempting to add credibility to this season's performances, SPOTY, Kiwis or injuries should have conspired to place Leeds in their current predicament of being placed bottom of Super League after 13 rounds.
That's right... think about it... BOTTOM OF ******* SUPER LEAGUE AFTER 13 ROUNDS!!!
Apart from the lack of good coaching, how S**T must Lilley, Sutcliffe and the rest of the younger brigade be to deliver 12th and bottom place on the current SL ladder?
Yet sundry morons on here are comparing Lilley with the likes of Wally Lewis, Johnathan Thurston, Cooper Cronk and Adam Reynolds and claiming the future is bright?
Really?
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| The standards in super league are sky high. The current treble winners, with all their quality players are bottom of the table. Last years relegation stragglers beat the runners up by 60 points.
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| Good to see Bill cram all his cliches into the one post there, and still manage to add nothing. A personal best.
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| Surprised you find time on here these days Gilderdale.
Feel free to return to the twittersphere where you can bore everyone stupid with your neoliberal rantings and attempts at parody.
Funny haha.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Good to see Bill cram all his cliches into the one post there, and still manage to add nothing. A personal best.'"
All he saying is what everybody knows to be true but just don't want to admit it.
No way should Leeds be bottom of SL under any circumstances!!
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"All he saying is what everybody knows to be true but just don't want to admit it.
No way should Leeds be bottom of SL under any circumstances!!'"
No one would disagree with that last line.......thing was though we were just talking about Jordan Lilley before William's latest attention seeking post.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"All he saying is what everybody knows to be true but just don't want to admit it.
No way should Leeds be bottom of SL under any circumstances!!'"
There is no defence for a club of Leeds stature to be languishing at the bottom of the SL ladder.
None whatsoever.
If Super League was a quality competition from top to bottom, then, and only then could there be a defence of their current league position on the basis of the quality of the opposition. Yet there would also be strong grounds for a critique.
But SL isn't a quality competition. Far from it. It is in fact a substandard competition which cannot (or will not) even fund a reserve grade. The standards ain't that good at the top but the standards at the bottom are horrific, and that's where Leeds currently are. The worst of the worst.
Knostrop is more fragrant than Headingley these days.
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| Quote ="William Eve"Surprised you find time on here these days Gilderdale.
Feel free to return to the twittersphere where you can bore everyone stupid with your neoliberal rantings and attempts at parody.
Funny haha.'"
I'm wounded.
Your wit is as sharp as the mind of your avatar.
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| I think the idea that anyone is comparing Lilley to established NRL players just shows the desperation for something good to come out of what can only be described as a truly pathetic season to date. Never have I seen so much straw grasping as we see on here every week.
It usually goes along the lines of if so and so had been playing we would have won - that arrogance is unbecoming and it suggests the only team that could have played better is Leeds!!
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"I'm wounded.
Your wit is as sharp as the mind of your avatar.'"
I'm not here to entertain you.
You possess a gimp mask for that purpose.
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| Quote ="William Eve"I'm not here to entertain you.
You possess a gimp mask for that purpose.'"
That why he has to type all the time - can't talk
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"I think the idea that anyone is comparing Lilley to established NRL players just shows the desperation for something good to come out of what can only be described as a truly pathetic season to date.'"
Has anybody actually fully compared Lilley to established NRL players....or more accurately have they just compare one attribrute - speed?
Still if if give the usual suspects the slightest chance to twist it and shoehorn in another moan about Leeds and Super League then we shouldn't be at all surprised.
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| Lilley is better than Darren Lockyer.
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"Has anybody actually fully compared Lilley to established NRL players....or more accurately have they just compare one attribrute - speed?
Still if if give the usual suspects the slightest chance to twist it and shoehorn in another moan about Leeds and Super League then we shouldn't be at all surprised.'"
Nor should we be surprised by the usual excuses offered up by the usual suspects as why Leeds keep losing games - would you not agree.
On Lilley he looks better than he is because of the poor standard his team mates are putting out and the poor standard of SL in general.
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| Quote ="FlexWheeler"Lilley is better than Darren Lockyer.'"
At monopoly
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| Quote ="William Eve"Some perspective is required here.
Super League playing standards are dreadful and have been getting worse year on year IMO since around 2006.
A huge factor in this slide alongside a Salary Cap stuck in 1999 figures is the disappearance of a lot of ex-NRL players of a decent standard and, more importantly, the complete disappearance of NRL standard assistant coaches.
Given the current diabolical playing standards in Super League, no amount of Kirkstall flooding, loss of familiar facilities, ordinary coaching, loss of three geriatrics from the squad, training alongside sun-tan injecting mincers, Whipping Boy SL Rabble Rousing emotional interviews and speeches from JJB attempting to add credibility to this season's performances, SPOTY, Kiwis or injuries should have conspired to place Leeds in their current predicament of being placed bottom of Super League after 13 rounds.
That's right... think about it... BOTTOM OF ******* SUPER LEAGUE AFTER 13 ROUNDS!!!
Apart from the lack of good coaching, how S**T must Lilley, Sutcliffe and the rest of the younger brigade be to deliver 12th and bottom place on the current SL ladder?
Yet sundry morons on here are comparing Lilley with the likes of Wally Lewis, Johnathan Thurston, Cooper Cronk and Adam Reynolds and claiming the future is bright?
Really?'"
While I'll agree with the sentiment that the standard of super league has been really bad this year, as well as the argument that this Leeds squad should be nowhere near the bottom of the league, I would like to challenge your bit of perspective if I may.
And that is it is not Lilley Sutcliffe or even squad players in Keinhorst who are letting the team down. It is the so called Seasoned professionals that have been diabolical this season, to the point where I think the only one who could hold his head high is JJB. I have been especially dissapointed with the pack, while the backs can get some excuse from the young halves and all the chopping and changing, the pack had been nothing short of soft and stupid defensively. The last two games especially if they could have at least controlled a ruck for part of the game, our young halves had orchestrated enough points for the wins. They couldn't even manage that, and I can't imagine some pack members getting away with their contributions under our previous pack leader.
While I wouldn't compare Lilley to most NRL players, I think the Hastings one is fair, both have shown flashes, but I only struggled with another young halfback partner. Look how much of a difference Pearce made to the roosters this week. In fact I think the Roosters and Rhinos seasons as a whole are a pretty good comparison.
Whilst we are on the NRL I think it's fair to say their standards have dropped a bit too. Some great teams and and some good close games but a lot of crap too. That Newcastle team in particular is possibly the worst I have seen in the NRL, closely followed this year by the Titans and Warriors.
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| It is an interesting point about the NRL - I think there is a change in coaching style and that is taking time to bed in. The mechanical controlled coaching of a Maguire can't cope now with a more free faster style like Brisbane. Previously they knew exactly what was coming at them now things have changed and they cannot cope
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| Quote ="Barrie's Glass Eye"While I'll agree with the sentiment that the standard of super league has been really bad this year, as well as the argument that this Leeds squad should be nowhere near the bottom of the league, I would like to challenge your bit of perspective if I may.
And that is it is not Lilley Sutcliffe or even squad players in Keinhorst who are letting the team down. It is the so called Seasoned professionals that have been diabolical this season, to the point where I think the only one who could hold his head high is JJB. I have been especially dissapointed with the pack, while the backs can get some excuse from the young halves and all the chopping and changing, the pack had been nothing short of soft and stupid defensively. The last two games especially if they could have at least controlled a ruck for part of the game, our young halves had orchestrated enough points for the wins. They couldn't even manage that, and I can't imagine some pack members getting away with their contributions under our previous pack leader.
While I wouldn't compare Lilley to most NRL players, I think the Hastings one is fair, both have shown flashes, but I only struggled with another young halfback partner. Look how much of a difference Pearce made to the roosters this week. In fact I think the Roosters and Rhinos seasons as a whole are a pretty good comparison.
Whilst we are on the NRL I think it's fair to say their standards have dropped a bit too. Some great teams and and some good close games but a lot of crap too. That Newcastle team in particular is possibly the worst I have seen in the NRL, closely followed this year by the Titans and Warriors.'"
If Leeds and Huds are bottom 4 teams then based on Friday the standard of SL isnt too bad is it, the knights and Dragons of NRL have played a lot worse
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Nor should we be surprised by the usual excuses offered up by the usual suspects as why Leeds keep losing games - would you not agree.'"
YAWN! Do you just have that line on copy and paste?
Considering the general reasons people gave for Friday's loss were Leeds' poor discipline mostly by Ferres, the poorness of Watkins and Sutcliffe and inability to catch bombs then are you still going to trot out that tiresome line just because I correctly highlighted how you and William jumped on something (Lilley being compared to experienced NRL players) that really wasn't truely there.
Quote ="Sal Paradise"On Lilley he looks better than he is because of the poor standard his team mates are putting out and the poor standard of SL in general.'"
Maybe he does. Won't know until Leeds improve. I'd actually say playing well in a struggling team is a good sign, not a reason to say that's the only reason he looks good.
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| Quote ="leedsnsouths"If Leeds and Huds are bottom 4 teams then based on Friday the standard of SL isnt too bad is it, the knights and Dragons of NRL have played a lot worse'"
in fairness both Leeds and Hudds were terrible on friday.
Leeds made a huge number of handling errors in attack and barely caught a kick in defence and overall it was a penaltyathon.
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| So, not only has Lilley been compared to JT, Lewis, Cronk, etc, but some of the struggling clubs in the NRL like the Knights, Warriors, Titans, Roosters, Dragons, etc, are also worse and/or playing worse than the bottom clubs in SL?
Deary me
How can anyone take this forum even remotely seriously.
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