Thought the coach wanted to implement change?

Jon Wilkin - Won 1 (2006), Lost 5 (2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011)

So to confirm, he is a loser? A soft-cock one at that.

I wonder how many wino's fans were saying he wasnt good enough when they thought he was signing for Leeds. Not many I bet, he did'nt get voted man of steel by the players for nothing. Saying he is not good enough is a joke, lets see if your still saying that after the Aussie game.

Most overrated player in SL by some distance. Absoulutely laughable how he won MOS, can anyone recall him having a good game against a top 4 side??

Cheers, I knew you'd correct me if I was wrong so I didn't bother to look up the facts for myself.

Quite a few, to be fair.

Wigan draw, lost to saints away by 2 and I seem to remember him scoring an excellent try against you lot in the challenge cup. so are u saying u wouldn't have him at Leeds

I wouldn't go that far, I just might not swap what we already had. But you asked how many Leeds fans said they didn't rate him when the rumours were circulating. You could dig out the thread if you like, but I can assure you that not everyone around here thought it was a good idea.

I'd have been quite happy to sign him, but you weren't asking about me.

For the record, I also wouldn't change the England team at the moment. And also, if you read the thread, quite a lot of it has moved onto debating options in the pack, so you're really arguing with the original poster, not any sort of consensus opinion.

Let me guess all the Leeds fans want Bailey in the pack. Carvell would be my first choice.

We also all want Smith at full back and Diskin at 9.

Why would you assume that "all the Leeds fans" would think the same about any given issue?

Some Leeds fans might well like to see Bailey in the pack. Others, like you, would like to see Carvell add a bit of bulk. Still others like me, think the best option is to keep the team settled in the hope of gaining some cohesion.

Do all the Cas fans have the same opinion about everything? Your forum must be well dull if they do.

Diskin now I do smell bull

Think you are showing too much credit to the haters out there.

Alot IMO would prefer Carvell to play just to make sure TMFMISL doesn't.

Looking at the 19 man squad I'd swap Carvell for Wilkin, McGuire for Chase and Widdop to start instead of Tomkins

I would probably have liked to see Widdop somewhere in the starting line up, if the reports I've heard from Aus are accurate (don't watch that stuff myself unless it happens to be on when I'm in the gym) but IMO the time for that was before the France game. Tomkins has to play as he's our most likely threat in attack, and ever better in his defensive positioning. The Sinfield/Chase combination hasn't gelled yet, but starting from scratch with another one won't help that.

I'd largely stay as is, perhaps swapping Carvell for Wilkin, but no other tinkering.

I'd play Tomkins at 6, with Widdop at fullback. Both in the positions that they'v spent most of their, albeit short careers. But there is no way Chase would be anywhere near my 17 in the first place.

I would agree....but would be more inclined to go for Bailey rather than more of the predictable easily handled same in Carvell.

....JJB is [unot[/u a[intipodean[/i international class, but I never stated I would [idrop[/i him. It's a sad reflection on the depth of quality in SL that he is about the best we've got. I would even go for Ablett above the indescribably utter-waste-of-time-Wilkin.

If Chase is going to play, he has to be let off the leash and allowed to play in the same maverick style he does ar Cas. That's potentially going to result in a piece od magic, plus a whole load of errors you really can't afford at this level. It's fine in exhibition games for the Exiles and the Maori, but not in a competitive international tournament.

Widdop alongside Sinfield in the halves for me, Carvell on the bench alongside Ablett (to provide some backs cover).

If you base your judgements on rugby acumen rather than emotion then Carvell is the clear choice as a bigger, better prop with a good go forward game as againts Bailey who has errm.....?

Harsh. They offer different things. Bailey is probably the better defender, and has that undefinable quality of being able to get under people's skins. Great competitor, especially around the ruck. Carvell offers bigger ball carries, albeit with some retention issues.

My issue with bringing Bailey in is that we already have 3 props in the side who will want to play long stints, and so it makes sense to add a big ball carrier to do shorter "impact" stints, which isn't what Bailey offers.

A concern with not putting either of them on the bench is that, while Peacock, Graham and Morley are used to long stints, we'd be in trouble if one of them got an injury.

I agree Bailey is a good defender around the ruck and he has shown a much improved go forward under Macca's coaching this year. However we are talking about the big Aussie boys here and we have plenty of good tacklers but few good metre eaters. Baileys ability(?) to niggle is a questionable advantage. If he were to try it on against the Kangaroos then he would be certain to regret it.

Against Wales it was obvious that we only started to look like an attacking threat when the front row produced better go forward in the 2nd half.

It is no good just trying to contain Oz. To have any chance we have to score points and our backs will not get the space unless the pack put us on the front foot. Hence Carvel rather than Bailey.

I agree, as I've said I would go for Carvell as a swap for Wilkin (notwithstanding Carvell's apparent earlier Welsh-ness). I just thought you were off the mark in suggesting Bailey didn't offer anything. I wouldn't swap Carvell for Bailey at Leeds that's for sure. But he is the right man for the gig we need on the bench for England IMO.

Yup Bailey has nothing to offer

Your agenda is carrying on regardless.

A 4th prop is needed to be brought in no question. Carvell has got the nod. From his point of view he needs to make the most of his opportunity or we know who will get the shirt next week. Best of luck to him. It's England, I will support the team chosen.

Rugby acumen who show that the 2 props in question are stylistically different and have different games. With the cement placed props (Morley, JP, FGB) all more than capable of big game time it's down to what can the 4th prop offer and in what manner? The coach has possibly gone for a bit more bluster down the middle. Doesn't mean I would have gone down that route. But Carvell has to make a dent and make the metres or he won't have done his job!

Carvell can on both sides of the fence be a Sloppy Joe. Maybe he reminds you of a souped up Cross? Ah, memories.

Yes he does have something to offer, but not for this game.




As does yours





Well said. I agree.







Thats perhaps why I like him!