I did - I said on another thread I thought Leeds played really well - do you think Hull played to their optimum or showed form they have in recent weeks?

You are maybe correct and Hull played as well as they have all year just Leeds made them look distinctly ordinary.

Hull looked ordinary because they are ordinary , with a good coach , a good half back and full back, one of which kicks goals , keep the hooker and Leeds win Super league next year

Fact is we missed a chance to start a process of rebuilding this season. No way we should be looking at a finished rebuild for 2 seasons.
First thing is change of coach. Time is up, fresh voices needed or nothing will help.
You can't clear everyone out that needs to go at the end of this season, it would be impractical.
Achurch is obviously going, I would reluctantly say goodbye to Delaney. He's a luxury we can't afford. Been terrific for us over the years but he's shot.
To reduce the squad further would be counterproductive. Phase out Burrow and Mags gradually, again it's obvious they can't go past the end of next season but we need them next year. Same for JJB. Reduce his role on the pitch gradually next season then make that his last.
No doubt we need 2 halves and a hooker. We also need leaders on the pitch.

For me the minimum quality of forward we should have should be Singleton, we can't have players of his limited ability leading the pack.

But like I said, without a complete overhaul of the coaching set up the next few years could be miserable. No coach keeps his job after serving up pretty much the worst season in the clubs history.

Unfortunately you cannot have ' end of season clear outs ' on that scale. Personally I would let L Briscoe go and probably Walters too. Give Mullally a bit longer yet.

Good post, i fully agree.

Sneyd has an outstanding kicking game, ball in hand he strives to be average.

We do need a dominant half to take control of the kicking game, Lilley is still learning, and Burrow has never been that. McGuire hasnt been on the field enough this year and you have to worry how much he has left next year at 34.

Personally Jamie Soward would be ideal, and along with keeping Segayaro, Ward will be like a new signing and i think thats a decent squad to go with.

I kind of agree. any win at hull though is a good one. they do seem to be having a dip but they played fairly well on Friday. we just played for 80 minutes, a first, and showed composure, again a first for this year.
however wigan will be a tougher test and it will be interesting to see if we can back that display up for successive games

Just amended this for next season for everyone to see where we stand with players contracts.

Also next season Joel Moon comes off the overseas quota as he has completed his British citizenship. Only Garbutt and Segeyaro would be on the overseas quota. Segeyaro, Garbutt, Galloway, Moon, Cuthbertson, Delaney all on the non fed trained quota, mean we have one non fed trained quota spot and two overseas quota spots.

Ridiculous that we could have 9 Aussies in our squad next year.

Thought there maybe Jack Ormondroyd to add to that list?

So Luke Briscoe apart, there's no-one that the club would realistically want to move on that are out of contract at the end of this season.

Not sure how long his contract is otherwise he would be on there.

We could only have 7 next season. The 2 quotas (the Overseas Quota and the Non-Federation Trained Quota) run side by side not as an addition to each other.
The only way we could have more than 7 Aussies is if we signed someone who was exempt to the Non-Fed Trained rules which are Aussies etc who were at SL clubs in 2008 when the rules were brought in. So for instance Kylie Leuluai was exempt from it up until his retirement as he came to use before 2008. Whether that remains the case with players who have moved clubs like Pat Richards I don't know. But that's the only way to get more than 7 (the Non-Fed Trained Limit) Aussies at the club. Hence why we had to get rid of Falloon to bring in Segeyaro.

We're one of 4 SL clubs to have offered a deal to Jamie Soward. If London get promoted he'll probably end up there. Either way, he plans to finish his career in SL fore returning to a coaching role at Penrith.

Fair enough. Just taking it from Frosties post as he named 6 Aussies we already have then stated we could have another non- fed trained and have two more overseas spots which obviously makes nine.

I can see Achurch L.Briscoe & Walters moving on
Its rumoured Baldwinson is on his way with Ormandroyd coming in.
If we start next year with a fully fit squad im sure Lilley Handley & Golding will be dual reg with maybe Mullally.
Hopefully Segeyero stays which he's indicated he's happy to but we'll see another rumoured arrival is Tony Williams from the Doggies throw in Soward may join id say thats us set as a squad.
How we phase Mags Burrow Jjb & Delaney out is anyones guess id be tempted to let 2 go at the end of this year.

Yeah but whilst you could fairly easily get an Aussie who doesn't count on the Overseas Quota, I don't think you can get an Aussie who doesn't count on the non-fed trained quota.

Now don't get me wrong I think the quota is too high. It was brought in at a max of 5 and the whole idea was to steadily reduce it over the years. But then London and Salford got themselves in a mess so the RFL increased it to 7. Yet again, putting back efforts to improve and prioritise youth development.

Interesting point re Williams. Maybe the club has seen the impact Taylor has had at Catalan and is willing to take a punt on T-Rex. Certainly couldnt be any worse than Achurch who we are led to believe is on big money.

Tony Williams has been great for Canterbury since he was dumped out of first grade earlier this year he's really go his act together. Can't see him Sl bound.

I dont want to see us sign any more Aussies, we already have too many, imo.

We have way too many supremely average forwards in the squad. If we had a reserve team I'd keep Luke Briscoe as a utility, and I still would for next year if he was willing to develop as a hooker. As it is unless we sign another we're one injury away from where we've been most of this year.

Looking at the list posted by Frosties, I'd argue that there are several categories here (not knowing anything about salaries & long-term injuries etc!):

1. Core of first team that should be a priority to be retained: Rob Burrow (not necessarily in starting position!), Ryan Hall, Ash Handley, Joel Moon, Liam Sutcliffe, Kallum Watkins, Carl Ablett, Adam Cuthbertson, Brett Ferres, Keith Galloway, Mitch Garbutt, Jimmy Keinhorst, James Segeyaro, Brad Singleton and Stevie Ward (not category 2 I hope).

2. Good players to be retained only after a dispassionate assessment of their fitness and ability to contribute in 2017: Tom Briscoe, Danny McGuire, Brett Delaney, and Jamie Jones-Buchanon. Keeping all of these players will surely be a luxury. I included Briscoe here because I'm assuming he'll be one of the better paid players, for whom a ready-made replacement exists in Handley. The other three are already well discussed: in many ways they are the heart of the team, and perhaps it is fine for them to carry on if the club expects them to play a diminished role compared to previous seasons.

3. Fringe players with potential but should not take much cap-space: Luke Briscoe, Ashton Golding, Jordan Lilley, Anthony Mullally, and Josh Walters. Ultimately these players will either break into the side on a regular basis or continue as squad players - I assume there's no big gain in letting them go in monetary terms.

4. Players already leaving or likely to do so: Zak Hardaker, Mitch Achurch, Jordan Baldwinson?

The bottom line for me is that I don't think we need a big clear-out. If an experienced new half-back could be brought in, more the better - either to replace McGuire direct or to replace another big-name player on the salary cap (my choice would be Tom Briscoe, who seems the biggest luxury at present) - that is the only major change needed with Segeyaro now confirmed.

Those who regard Tom Briscoe as a "luxury".

Who do you play on the wing if Ryan Hall gets hurt and you've let him go? If your answer - with any degree of seriousness - is Luke Briscoe or Ashton Golding, give your head a shake.

Handley's an excellent back-up to have around and will get better with experience, but Briscoe and Hall were one of the key foundations that last year's success was built on with their finishing and their work early in the tackle count to get the team on the front foot.

Agree with that Andy.

Also Briscoe is significantly better than Handley. That's not a criticism of Handley, it's just acknowledging how good a player Briscoe is. It's why we chose him over BJB.

Briscoe, Hall and Hardaker were superb for us last season and were a major factor in our success. Their ability to bring the ball back upfield (coupled with their notable skill and ability to score tries) gave us great momentum on each set. Which then gave both the space and extra energy for the likes of Cuthbertson to cause havoc in the opposition defences. That's something we've been sorely missing this season with both Hall & Briscoe injured and Hardaker clearly not "mentally fit" at that time.

I get your point Exeter but you could argue the case for any player being a luxury. For me, Briscoe is integral to us playing our best rugby and we built a game plan on him, Ryan and Zak bringing it out with big gains.

Your point is a good one though in terms of assessing the key members of the squad.

The list of contracts Frosties put up show that rebuilding the team with a salary cap is at least a two-season job. The squad it looks very imbalanced, with too many really average forwards, lack of proven depth in the outside backs Handley aside (especially if Sutcliffe is the primary full back option), only one genuine hooker and a bunch of halfbacks with a lot to prove. In an ideal world I'd lose some forwards, get another hooker (or at least a utility who can properly play there) and a quality halfback. If I was being brutal I'd punt Burrow because he's not a good halfback and we need to get away from the chaotic realignment that occurs when he's hooker.

One thing the recent string of results shows is that whilst returning players have made a difference, attitude matters more. Regardless of how well we may end the season, the highlights reel from this year ought to make very sobering viewing with respect to a number of players, and even moreso the coach. I agree with DHM that what the team really needs is a new coach. Sadly I think we'll survive this year, probably easily in the end, and as a result BM will be given a go at turning things round. I just can't see that being anything other than a wasted year in terms of rebuilding.