Im sure elsewhere it mentioned that he was the 50th in the SL era to graduate from the academy.

None taken. Wish I had that much hair.

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If there was an official list published it would be interesting to see who has missed out from the following =#0000BF60 names:

Francis Cummins, Marvin Golden, Graham Holroyd, Mick Shaw, Adrian Morley, Nick Fozzard, Phil Hassan, Jamie Field, Marcus Vassilakopoulos, Matt Schultz, David Gibbons, Anthony Gibbons, Paddy Handley, Paul Gleadhill, Terry Newton, Leroy Rivett, Lee Maher, Gavin Brown, Adam Hughes, James Leatham, Kevin Sinfield, Garreth Carvell, Chev Walker, Dave Wrench, Danny Ward, Chris Chapman, Jamie Jones-Buchanan, Andy Speak, Mark Calderwood, Matt Diskin, Gareth Morton, Jon Liddell, Jason Netherton, Rob Burrow, Danny McGuire, Andy Kirke, Ryan Bailey, Richard Mathers, Nick Scruton, Jonny Hepworth, Carl Ablett, Lee Smith, Scott Murrell, Ashley Gibson, Danny Williams, Jordan Tansey, Ryan Hall, Michael Ratu, Luke Burgess, Danny Allan, Ben Kaye, Michael Haley, Kallum Watkins, Joe Chandler, Ben Jones-Bishop, Paul McShane, Dane Manning, Tom Bush, Chris Clarkson and Brad Singleton.

All the above have played at 1st grade level for Leeds during the SL Era having, by my reckoning at least, graduated through the Headingley Junior grades. A defined criteria is probably needed.

Just out of interest when did Jonny Hepworth make his first team debut - I can't remember him ever hitting the first team.

tvoc, can you redo the list with those who have made their debut for Leeds during the SL years in red?

That's interesting when you read the reply I was working on as you posted.



I'm with you there also but the club stating Anthony Gibbons was the first has thrown me off as he played 8 times in the Centenary season. If he's in then I guess that opens the door for the others you mention - assuming the definition of 'Academy' is consistent throughout that period.

All 60 players on the list have made at least one appearance in the SL Reg Rounds so it's not as if I can lose any for only making an appearance in a Challenge Cup fixture (although I would still count that personally anyway.)



If only ......

Hopefully they'll be an explanation somewhere down the track although, as with the unique numbers, it could be another closely guarded secret.

hepworth played at wigan that much i do remember. Not sure when, around 2000 maybe?

Like it, although just to be awkward I'll highlight in red those who made their 1st Grade debuts before the SL Era:

=#FF0000Francis Cummins, =#FF0000Marvin Golden, =#FF0000Graham Holroyd, =#FF0000Mick Shaw, =#FF0000Adrian Morley, =#FF0000Nick Fozzard, =#FF0000Phil Hassan, =#FF0000Jamie Field, =#FF0000Marcus Vassilakopoulos, =#FF0000Matt Schultz, =#FF0000David Gibbons,=#FF0000 Anthony Gibbons, =#FF0000Paddy Handley, Paul Gleadhill, Terry Newton, Leroy Rivett, =#FF0000Lee Maher, Gavin Brown, Adam Hughes, =#FF0000James Leatham, Kevin Sinfield, Garreth Carvell, Chev Walker, Dave Wrench, Danny Ward, Chris Chapman, Jamie Jones-Buchanan, Andy Speak, Mark Calderwood, Matt Diskin, Gareth Morton, Jon Liddell, Jason Netherton, Rob Burrow, Danny McGuire, Andy Kirke, Ryan Bailey, Richard Mathers, Nick Scruton, Jonny Hepworth, Carl Ablett, Lee Smith, Scott Murrell, Ashley Gibson, Danny Williams, Jordan Tansey, Ryan Hall, Michael Ratu, Luke Burgess, Danny Allan, Ben Kaye, Michael Haley, Kallum Watkins, Joe Chandler, Ben Jones-Bishop, Paul McShane, Dane Manning, Tom Bush, Chris Clarkson and Brad Singleton

Looks like that would remove 15 names from the 60 and crucially (as stated previously) that includes the player credited with starting the group (Anthony Gibbons.)

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Not at 1st grade level.



Jonny Hepworth had the shortest Leeds 1st grade playing career I've ever known (even shorter than Alan Rathbone's)

He came on as a sub for the final two minutes on the 9th May 2003 V London Broncos at Griffin Park to see out the Leeds win (14-32)

I'm not good at counting but I think 15 of them have represented GB/England.

Like you, I imagine, off the top of the head.

Cummins, Morley, Newton, Sinfield, Carvell, Walker, Ward, Jones-Buchanan, Calderwood, Diskin, Burrow, McGuire, Bailey, Smith, Hall.

Do we agree?

Almost. I missed Carvell but included Fozzard.

Nope.

I counted 17.

Never mind.

Is it my 15 + 2 others?

I initially came up with the same 15 as you did.

But if we're counting England here, what about Danny Williams and Ashley Gibson? They both played in the Federation Shield tournament in 2006 which also included France, Tonga and Samoa. Or do we not count those rep games?

Addendum: I think Nick Scruton also played for England in the Fed Shield.

That's 18 then.

You all missed out Richard Mathers.

(edit: I think his games might have been classified England A at the time, vs France & NZ in 2005, but on the England RL site they seem to be be counted as full internationals after the event. England/GB/Knights/Lions never make it clearcut.)

To be honest I remembered those England Fed games but had discounted them (rightly or wrongly) as beneath the level G1 was thinking ..... wasn't Paul Cullen the coach? It's appears Fozzard should have made the list as G1 points out. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 004192.stm

To be honest I remembered those England Fed games but had discounted them (rightly or wrongly) as beneath the level G1 was thinking ..... wasn't Paul Cullen the coach? It's appears Fozzard should have made the list as G1 points out. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 004192.stm

Quote ="tvoc"To be honest I remembered those England Fed games but had discounted them (rightly or wrongly) as beneath the level G1 was thinking ..... wasn't Paul Cullen the coach?'" Yes, Cullen was the coach. I'm not sure those England games should count. I'm not a huge fan of the England international brand anyhow. My preference has always been for GB. Quote ="tvoc"It's appears Fozzard should have made the list as G1 points out. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 004192.stm'" Indeed. One GB appearance for Fozzard in the Tri Nations of 2005 at Loftus Rd against the Kiwis. I didn't remember him playing despite attending that particular fixture. www.rugbyleagueproject.org/match ... aland.html

Quote ="tvoc"To be honest I remembered those England Fed games but had discounted them (rightly or wrongly) as beneath the level G1 was thinking ..... wasn't Paul Cullen the coach?'" Yes, Cullen was the coach. I'm not sure those England games should count. I'm not a huge fan of the England international brand anyhow. My preference has always been for GB. Quote ="tvoc"It's appears Fozzard should have made the list as G1 points out. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 004192.stm'" Indeed. One GB appearance for Fozzard in the Tri Nations of 2005 at Loftus Rd against the Kiwis. I didn't remember him playing despite attending that particular fixture. www.rugbyleagueproject.org/match ... aland.html

Yes, you're right... Mathers did play in 2005. I think they were playing as England rather than England 'A'. Definitely recall them playing the Kiwis who utilised it as a warm-up game during their week off from the Tri Nations while GB were playing Australia the same weekend.

The confusion over GB and England and what fixtures should and shouldn't count as a full international is utterly shambolic. It's just another symptom of a poorly-run game at international level which always struggles to attain any credibility.

With thanks to TVOC, the stats are now up. 9 carries from Singleton. Remember Kirke has made 4 carries in a game twice.

In fact, Kirke has only carried the ball more than 9 times in a game once this season.

agree with a lot being said, good outing for the lad and showed he will not be out of place when needed

Kyle Amor really ripped up the NL Championship didnt he

You don't think a decent work rate from a forward is needed every week?

I do not overlook it because those 4 carry games are not isolated. Many, many times last year he showed a similar lack of appetite for the ball. Kirke is a lazy and a soft player.

I've no idea what instructions he took the field with from the coaching staff but given the complete lack of forwards this year I'd be willing to wager a large sum that it wasn't "leave it to the other lads to take up the ball Ian".

In the game against the Bulls he made 4 carries. He also made 11 tackles. every froward bar Kylie made more tackles. What role was Kirke asked to perform in that game?

In the Warrington game you mention he made 4 carries but 23 tackles. 23 tackles is OK but not that impressive. The other front rowers that day made 31 and 32 tackles.

Lets not pretend Kirke avoids the ball because he's a tackling machine.

Thought he was worth a bench spot after last weeks performance!

He pretty much did the season before coming under the Leeds coaching set-up.

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You could also argue that Amor highlights the sheer gulf in standards between the part-time and full-time comps in this country.

You could say that, but then ripped up England RL in the Gary Purdham Charity match, the best forward on the pitch.