well it would do if it werent relative

Apparently only Peacock is good enough for England,

the rest of SL has players it seems much better than Senior, Mcguire, Burrow, Diskin,

some dont even need a whole season to prove it, they are that much better than there 3 in a row winning counterparts

In my opinion no. I 've already stated that Burrow has been discarded from the international scene way too early.

Rob started the season slowly, due to injury, but built his form as the season went on and culminated with a masterful display in the GF. He should've been England's 7, IMO.

Eastmond and Tomkins are the future but not yet. Still they have their chance so I hope they take it and have great games. I'll personally be more than happy if they bedazzle the Kiwis on Saturday.

Plus, like you say, England's loss is our gain so far as Rob not being involved.

20 games and you are good enough.
or don't play for 6 months but sign for the coaches club side.

either will do it seems

You fooking hypocrite you come on here basking in mcguires poor performance and telling us how good it was to hear him booed off then post this that we should be backing englands players!!
Just for the record many were backing the england players you pleb but you obviously had another agenda.

Best tackler on the pitch last week, workhorse with most tackles of all followed by Sinfield

I didn't mention him being booed off at all. I said it gave me vicarious pleasure to have a Leeds player receive all the vilification this time out. Last year it was Saints players. I also said I was getting bored with it. I got bored.

I know Merseysiders play on being the victims etc but didn't Sinfield & Burrow receive equal criticism?

Not that I can remember. It was all Pryce, Gardner and Wellens, particularly Wellens (although I don't remember Briscoe looking much quicker on Saturday!). I can't remember much if any criticism really for the Leeds contingent but perhaps that was because I was defending Wello. As I would because he may be slow, but we could have done with his positional sense last Saturday.

PS: It's scousers who play at victim. We St Helens folk are of gritty mining stock.

edited for accuracy.

Burrow is what? 26? He only made it onto the international scene 2 years ago and was man of the series. Then like many last year he had a poorish WC and he's out? He's got experience and still got the pace and fitness he had 6 years ago. He really turned it up as the season wore on and as usual produced a massive GF performance, as did McGuire for that matter.

I'm also beginning to wonder if Myler has been caught out on the lash with Mickey Rourke?

I too hope Eastmond and Tompkins take the Kiwis apart. I've cheered for Sean Edwards so I'll cheer for anyone in our national shirt.

Think he needed a massive game vs France to justify selection, he got his chance and did not take it, Tomkins and Eastmond have when given a go thus far.

There was a Tri Nations from a few years ago when plenty of players cried off (Radlinski was one) and there was sublte whingeing about the length of the season, fatigue, etc. Wellens put his hand up and played. He did an interview after one match and was asked about the fatigue, and he just talked about how thrilled he was to play for his country, and how you shouldn't get tired in a GB shirt. I had a lot of respect for the guy after that.

Why?

What big games have Tomkins or Eastmond performed in this year to justify selection ahead of him? He was the man with the 7 shirt in his possession. He played a solid game behind a pack that underperformed and made too many mistakes in the France game. A game we still won comfortably by the way.

Because he had not been a first team regular at Salford.

He was selected as an organiser, he did not do this, he came into the 4 Nations with literally no form, while the other 2 did. Simply because he wore the 7 shirt in a meaningless international does not mean he had the 7 shirt. The 7 shirt was and still is up for grabs, as is the 6 shirt.

It is now the turn of Tomkins and Eastmond to make them theres, but in truth the mentality of owning an international shirt gets you nothing but mediocrity. They have to perform if they do not perform they are gone we now have some strength in depth potentially to do this which is why players like Burrow Pryce and McGuire will be sat watching the game on Saturday.

Preaching to the converted here dude.

Burrow was Smith's man. Myler played the mid season and season end dead rubbers last year but Burrow was rightly the 7. I still feel he should be.

In amongst the vitriol this past week on the VT many opposition fans have been saying the same.

Still, he aint in the squad so no use crying over spilt milk etc.

If the players themselves want to play for their Country then good luck to them but personally I would prefer them to have a decent break in the off-season. I wouldn't give an 'Eartha' if Danny,Robbie,Sin and JP all decided they'd had enough of International rugby and concentrated on club rugby.
Looking forward to Stains and Goons going head to head blaming the other clubs half-back for another poor performance! Might pop along to boo them in person!

We need to let this Burrow thing go. Putting Burrow in last week would have made jack 5h1t difference.

The fact is Myler was a million miles ahead of Burrow on form before the mid season France game, and rightly so Burrow was dropped for Myler. Whether it was a meaningless friendly or not Myler took his chance in that game, and therefore was deserving of keeping his place. Much the same way as you say Burrow deserved his WC spot because of his previous test series performances.

There is far more problems for England IMO than the scrum half position.

Yep. My biggest worry though was the difference in the quality of passing. The Aussies passing was of a much higher quality than ours and made a big difference when they were getting the ball out wide quickly. As was their kicking game.
Plus they have a freak in Inglis. Take him out of the team and theyre nothing special. Still the best, but eminently beat-able.

:3gisr6suI have "let it go". But we're having a discussion about selection policies so I'd like to be able to respond to DHM's post about it iof that is Ok with you?

:3gisr6suYou can say the same about every single English Super League player. Our standards are so far behind those. We need to overhaul a lot of things. In the meantime we need to pick the best players we can. I, and other posters think that should've been Burrow.

:3gisr6suIts' not a fact at all. Its' your opinion. I was actually referring to the previous years' game against France as was clear by the fact that I also mentioned the Wales game prior to the World Cup. Myler's involvement in those didn't stop Burrow being selected for the World Cup.

I don't agree with that. I don't see any logic in it if you apply it to selection. If Myler had "no form" (and there are other opinions to yours that disagree with that), why was he selected at all when there were so obviously (in your opinion) superstars like Tomkins and and Eastmond available?
And as for security of selection getting you "nothing but mediocrity", what a load of c**p. A player needs to be able to play his natural game (hopefully you have seen the guy you select more than once during the season to form an opinion), and you can't do that if there is tremendous pressure on you to play out of your skin every time you walk on a field.
This is especially true for a key position like half back, where you play with an unfamiliar set of forwards and backs. Myler did nothing wrong against France, what did Tomkins or Eastmond do during that game to justify being selected infront of him?
I'm interested to know.

I'm not saying those two guys are not worth a place in the team - they were in last week and should be playing this week, I'm simply trying to understand selection policy.

Its' been baffling and his public statements have been massively contradictory.

"Building for the future" Lee Smith
Comments supporting McGuire - dropping McGuire.
Tomkins and Myler for Wales, McGuire and Myler for France, McGuire and Tomkins for Aus, Tomkins and Eastmond for NZ.
Letting Paul Sykes within 2000 metres fo the squad.

I wonder if Smith (being human), wobbled after the WC and all the stick we got? It was a really awful performance from the squad as a whole, and the halves got a lot of criticism in particular (as usual). I think perhaps he was reluctant to select Burrow and Pryce for that reason, no matter how well they played in the SL season. Logically you would have selected Pryce ahead of Sykes, but Pryce was a very high profile failure, while Sykes was a less obvious one.

Funnily enough, if we had been able to defend on our own line anything like as well as an average SL team I could have seen us in the final. We had NZ in the first half and seemed to be able to score easily against them, only really dodgy defence let us down. I couldn't see us beating Australia, but a win over NZ and a WC final would have been surely counted as a relative success and the pressure would have been off (a series win over NZ and a WC final down under would have given Smith less pressure). Worryingly the defensive alignment issues we had last year are still there, and that's with pretty much a totally different back division.

Thats the most important one for me. The 4 Nations isnt the place to "try out" different half back combinations. Its only 3/4 games we should be trying to win FFS. Smith should know who his best 2 half backs are from over the season. Play them and stick with them. If England dont get to the 4 Nations final, when coupled with the WC performance, its a disaster. It's all well and good "building" for the 2013 World Cup but whats the point if theres no-one there to watch it.

I still think as Leeds fans we are been a bit biased here.

Neither player was the best in their positions throughout the season. Infact neither player had seasons even close to their previous seasons form.

Pryce had the added ability of been versatile to cover other positions. And Infact, regardless of his stand off form he is still a better Centre than what we had Saturday, a better fullback than what we had Saturday, and a better winger than Briscoe. Therefore overlooking his selection from the squad wa baffling. Although maybe off field problems could have been the cause.

Burrow is a scrum half and that is it. He is not a utility player and therefore was competing with other scrum halfs. He did not display anything last season that eclipsed anything close to what Myler produced, or what Eastmond produced in his cameo 8 weeks while long was out. Therfore it can not be argued against his non selection.

Hopefully Burrow will see it for what it is, and get back to the form from previous seasons, which would then IMO put him back ahead of his current competition.

With only 3 build up internationals though, and limited time together, there is little time to work out who works well with who. You can't always pick the best person in their positions, and expect it to work out well. A balance is needed.

With such pressures, you could be forgiven, as a coach for going with combinations that work at club level. As a triangle, Sinfield, Burrow and McGuire works, week in, week out. They may not be on the best form over the season, or have been the best individuals, but as a creative triangle it is proven.