Read the second part, that's where my concern lies.

When you think moving the ball early and scoring points from deep is a gimmick, you're going out of your way to moan and try and call Rohan a poor coach imo

You'd be wrong, if you can't actually understand the context of why I said what I said then we will disagree and imo youre going out of your way to dismiss alternativeviews to your own as rohan bashing, i think my post history is pretty balanced on my thoughts about his performance.

As a coach my values are in getting the team performing the fundamentals to a high consistency first, Austin played the early cross field kick last year though our overall play was poor, you can't see why I've concerns about get out of jail trick plays (which are great by the way, especially when backed up by the other qualities I mention) being prioritised over the fundamentals which I've seen little evidence of getting right for some time. It will be these fundamental qualities that will get us competing with the top 4, not sporadic trick plays. But go ahead and say I'm moaning that we scored a quality try as that suits your agenda.

I'll put it another way, if you could gain yardage or score a try on every exit set in that way then great, but you can't and the concern is we don't have the requisite game plan or skills to put good teams under pressure for large parts of a game and execute defense splitting pass plays. Because that's what the really great teams do and trick plays are supplement to that.

I thought it might take longer than game 2 to start all this to be honest, but here we are.

Anyway onto Catalans.

'Start all this', Christopher you need to accept that people respond and comment on the performances and tactics they see, you seem to take that notion personally. Im not shouting and screaming sack the coach, I'm just expressing (in a calm manner) that I don't see a team far removed from last year with a similar approach. You disagree, I know, thats OK, we will see where he gets us in a couple of months.

We are only 2 games in and no i don't expect to see a polished performances but for me some key indicators are not there that should be even at this stage. Saturday will give us an idea where we're heading.

I'm not taking it personally, Im just responding and commenting just like you.

I see some key indicators, things like two 87% completion rates in our fast games, in both games in the main we have found the correct players in position to get the sets complete correctly. Bar the second half in the Hull KR (when we down two forwards) we made more e metres than the opposition, we have a dummy half who's distribution is among the best in the league and is a tough defender and quick.

The approach seems far different to me and we now have more quality to actually execute those trick plays.

As I say on to Catalans, one thing I will say is if we ever start playing like an Ian Watson coached side, I probably will give up watching, I do not want to see a process driven side, I want to see side with the balance between the two correct.

So far we haven't looked great in the opposition 20, hopefully thats down to combinations getting to know each other etc.

I think the "trick plays" are been hyped up too much, its not like we're trying them every set. Fans moaned we never looked like scoring from deep, now other teams know we are dangerous from deep and gives them more to think about.

I also think too many people are only focusing on our attack and saying they cant see any coaching/improvement but aren't paying any attention to our defence, which is much improved.

The majority of our tries this year have come from within the opposition’s 20 metre line.

I’ve not seen one side this year bar maybe saints against Hull look anything like firing on all cylinders in attack

Hang on didn’t it work like 2 times out of 3?

To be fair Seth you’re not a super league or NRL coach either (are you???) so is it just possible RS knows more about coaching and is better at it than you are?

You’re entitled to make criticisms of course, you’re obviously very knowledgeable but it’s also not the case that there is only one way to do things.

I happen to agree with you in terms of building fundamentals but I think RS focuses on energy conservation (to some extent like TS). Jury is still out but it is a legitimate approach.

You're the one assuming that "trick plays" are being prioritised, there's absolutely no proof of that.

And I'd point to our high completion rate as being proof of fundamentals being much sounder this year than last for a start.

Not sure that calling Ash’s trys ‘trick plays’ is very fair either, both had a tremendous amount of skill and awareness involved.

Especially the one against Salford, Id much prefer us to be playing whats infront of us in those situations rather than just playing percentages to get out of our half.

If you’ve got that skill in your locker you use it.

Ouch, that cuts deep Jim, you enjoyed getting that in

..Probably the most experienced coach in here then.

I'm entitled to comment on what I see as much as anyone is (a bit like your strong views on the disciplinary Jim, i dont think youre a match official and maybe theres more than one way of doing things?)

I've not slagged anyone off or called for his head but people seem to be very touchy (like Chris' 'i though it'd take longer than rnd 2 before 'all this') will see whether RS way of doing things is able to get the team and I think by round 8-10 we can give a fair assessment whether that's going to b enough to complete at the top end over the long term.

LeedsBA - completion would suggest some execution of fundamentals but you can still complete high without offering much in the way of creating space for the majority of the time. Stats aren't always the best indicator. And again you and Christopher are choosing to take what I've said about the cross field kick (which I've said more than once was a brilliant play) without any context.

I think he’s (and me to some extent) are taking your comment on the ‘trick’ plays as youve suggested they are taking precedence over other things when there’s no evidence to suggest they are.

Ultimately though we agree that it’s too early to tell anything yet.

Im honestly not taking it personally were just discussing it and we are just coming from it at different angles.

It’s like being in a classroom on here. Hard to actually follow topic with the pathetic bickering……
Please start a private WhatsApp chat or something, if you want such a personal chat fellas

Eh it's a discussion forum, what personal chats are we having? I've not asked Seth what he's having for his tea.

Must admit it is nice to watch us run round teams again, haven’t seen that since we had Watkins/Moon!

No harm meant mate

I'm just pointing out that RS is highly likely to know more about what he's doing than you seem to think at times.

On the disciplinary front even, I think the referees are unfairly criticised at times, it is a tough job and I have strong views over the whole application. My concern is for the game as a whole; but again we have to balance health of players alongside the spectacle we all enjoy.

I actually feel sorry for the refs, it's not their fault.

I look forward to you contributing something of interest to the class Shabs, til then, sit down.

The evidence of how good RS is will ultimately be played out over the next couple of months and we will be able to see conclusive evidence, I hope his approach does succeed and we all get to watch a quality performing team most weeks.

A couple of signings aside, I like his recruitment so far. You could say he's been given a sizeable war chest too.. some re-signings I'm not so convinced by but I don't know the intricacies of the salary cap or what players are like off-field and in training.

It's fair to say that we are all expecting better performances and results from the team this year. Already we have injury clouds over Holroyd, Oledski straight away, and now Lisone banned. Is RS responsible but us being dodgy in the critical front row positions? I don't think so but yet this could cost us games.

I still think we should have signed another ready-to-play prop, but maybe the right person just wasn't available. We were linked with a couple before they signed at other clubs.

I would also like to see us being more effective in "good ball", but in fairness I've already seen better application of pressure than most of last year. Leeds have not been great in the opposition 20 for a very long time now, since well before RS - but we have players like Newman, Croft and Miller who can create something at the line.

He would be responsible for continually picking Donaldson there, though thankfully that's been taken out of his hands for a couple of games and I hope he never has to consider that option again.

Agree on Donno; great club servant but when he’s making an average gain of 3m at prop it’s pretty embarrassing.

Emergency back rower only for me.