I don't think people have the ability to do this Tad. Like the comment about hardly a team to select. Other than Ward we have had most players for the last couple of months, and looked equally as poor. It is called scraping the bottom of a barrell, when these incorrect lines are trotted out.

Yes but if we had won nothing last year then it could be argued it was a pattern of behaviour which as caused the decline. He said'' the reason we are in this mess''.

If what he said is correct, then we'd have needed to put a team of under 19's every week, bar Keinhorst and lilley.

Good one.

Yes but we aren't poor because player are selected after playing poor.

We are poor because we are poor.

my point is, loads on here keep harping on about last year.
that's gone, history. this season has been a disaster. granted it's not a pattern but how many games have we played well in? 4 in 27/28?
for me that means we need to move on and rebuild

They are part of the same problem. Yes the coach and his inability to change anything, may well very be the main reason. But some players have continually put in less than average performances, or at least done nothing to warrant keeping hold of the shirt. So why not create an element of competition for them by giving another an opportunity to earn it?

I think you're fighting the wrong battle pal. Gotcha said selecting players after playing poorly is the reason we are in this mess. We've been poor from week 2, with loads of injuries and no cohesion and confidence. So that argument doesn't stack up. Now if we'd done badly last year, and had a pattern of selecting players after playing badly then you could argue it was a rot that started last year, but we won the treble....hence me mentioning that.

I think we need surgery, I'm not the one who thinks everything is hunky dory, it was simply mentioned to highlight the stupidity of his point..

I can see the thinking behind playing one or two younger ones v Batley , however the reason Hallas, Jordan roberts, smith etc have not been picked is that they are not as good as the first team players

We have been poor since week 2 you say? And yet 13 of the seventeen in week 2, were in the seventeen this very last game. I rest my case. I accept the biggest problem is the tactics, but that hasn't changed, so change something else because consistently below par performances shouldn't earn a shirt.

You rest your case? What case? You can't drop an injured player.

Of course Hallas is not as good as Segayaro, or Jordan Roberts as the best in his role. But would say Smith really offer any less than what Ablett is giving currently? Or Jordan Roberts really effect us by replacing a sub? All that is said is give an opportunity for another to stake a claim, and use this easy chance to gain experience. At the same time it might make the current holders of the shirt up their own game,

What injured player are you going on about? Nobody has mentioned one.

I'm not referring to a specific player.

There's a job still to be done, no messing about with team selection sayIng "ahh it'll be ok".....it was the same attitude those posters were accusing the club of earlier in year and now they want to do it.

Yes we should beat Batley regardless of the lineup (but we should've been in the Top 8 also), but we need to beat them as heavily as possible. Yes it's a slim chance that we'll find ourselves relying on points difference but IT IS a possibility that isn't worth messing around with just to give some young lad 20 mins.

If we and Leigh get the job done we have two games left to try new lads. What are we going to find out about these lads if they come on 30-0 up at home vs Batley? Give them tougher opposition/games, but ones that don't have a bearing on the result. If we still need a result vs Hudds then also isn't it a good idea that we keep the same/similar lineup for this week instead of chopping and changing players who have already had a couple of weekends off recently anyways.

we have 50 points on HKR and 120 on Salford.

True, but if we were to lose our last two and HKR get themselves up to 10 points (they have two of the "lesser" Championship teams so could score some points) then that could change. Granted like I said it's a small chance, but it's a chance nonetheless and not one worth messing about with. I'd rather dot the i's and cross the t's and be ruthless and go for a cricket score this Friday.

Agreed. Not just from that point of view, but I also think the first team owes fans to put in as good a set of performances as possible.

Sound logic Printer. Injuries apart we should play our best side until the job is done.

And I have asked this a few times now, but nobody seems to want to state it. How is our best side been measured? What is our best side? we have had the same players out there, we have gone through games with other playes, and yet the performance is still pretty consistently the same, not good enough.

After Fridays game, I looked at that side, and of the starting thirteen, given a choice, I would gladly swap all but three of them tomorrow with players from other clubs. I don't think with regards two or three of them the difference would be that great, but the point is that all but three are just not that important.

I am comfortable that putting Smith in against Batley, would have no less effect than what we had out on Friday, and IMO would be better.

People will be measuring on historic performances and short term potential. No one is saying that right now Ablett is playing well enough that Jordan-Roberts or Smith couldn't do the same job but if Batley come out and really put some pressure on us then Ablett is the better pick as he has more experience and at the moment has a higher skill ceiling.

FWIW I would go

Golding
Handley
Briscoe
Keinhorst
Hall
Sanderson
Lilley
Garbutt
Segeyaro
Cuthbertson
Ablett
Ward
JJB

Burrow
Smith
Singleton
JJR

Start with a lot of experience in the pack to make sure we get an early foothold and then once we're clear give the youngsters a go.

Leeds 22 Batley 23

Because it's pointless anybody saying what they think the best 17 is as you'll just say so and so is rubbish and shouldn't be in the 17.

When people say strongest 17 it's easy to work out what that would be by McDermott's past selections on what he deems his strongest available side to be. If he picks youngsters that have 2,1, 0 appearances to their name then we know he isn't picking what he thinks his strongest side is, but rather picking them for other reasons whether that be to rest them, form, have a look at a youngster.

It isn't what I think, but thanks for the compliment that you worry about that.

The point is more, how is it measured full stop. People are saying strongest 17, and seem to be basing that on previous years, rather than this year, where we have consistently seen the same players (allegedly our strongest) putting in below average performances. That is why I asked what is the strongest line up they refer to. What they really refer to is our "usual line up" which isn't it would appear the same.

Play our strongest team and get the job done. Simple as that. No messing around with Youngsters.

You got "worry" from that? Erm ok then. Just pointing out that it'd be pointless for people to name the strongest 17 in reply to you because you'll just moan about Carl Ablett's inclusion like you have done for the last few years now.



They are basing it on exactly the same thing as you, who they think would be the best choice.....that their lineup would differ from yours doesn't change that because not everybody has the same opinion on individual players performance.

When people say strongest 17 you know what they mean. Question, if this weeks game was against Hudds would you be saying lets have all of Smith, JJR, Hallas, Handley, Mullally in? Would any of them been in your 17 to play Salford last week or against HKR both in the Middle 8's or the final week of the season when we needed to win to get up to 9th?

If not (which we all know they wouldn't be if you were being honest) then right there you have your answer about strongest 17.

I see the usual deflection of a point from you. Not sure what one player has to do with anything, when I have repeated several times we are talking about most players. Other times I am accused of having favourites, yet you only have to go back to season before last to see my favourite was Carl Ablett, now it seems to suit you to say I have had a problem with him for "a few years". For what it is worth, he is one of many who has not done enough to warrnt his shirt this season.



They are not basing it on the same as me at all. I have already asked what is our strongest 17, and I asked that because I do not know. All I do know is that the "usual line up" which seems to be trotted out all the time, have continually proven they are not earning the shirt. They might be picked in it, but they are not earning it. And with that in mind, without seeing the other options given a run, I don't believe anyone is in a position to state it is the strongest 17. And if it really is our strongest 17, then we are in bigger problems than people accept.

If I had to be honest, I would probably have to answer reluctantly yes to the question you asked. But that was exactly the reason why I suggested we should try out other options against Batley. Then we would have a better idea, and I am confident would find a better alternative.