You keep repeating this like a bad fart. What relevance does this have to June 2013? and despite you keep pointing this out, others keep telling you that whilst the same players have had excellent success over a number of years, the current head coach has only had the two years part of that.



Again, not really relevant, as there is only one club with the success previously (I say previously, as I repeat this year has not produced anything yet, and this year is what is being spoken about, and nobody as suggested resting players for cup finals). However, one club is currently running away with the league at the moment, and remind us again what they have sucessfully done this year?

With due respect rhinoms you keep making out you know better than the Champions professional coaches and management about player development and contract management. Are you also saying you are in possession of the full facts on each player? Are you saying you know the full facts regarding any contract discussions that may or may not have taken place. Are you saying you know what other recruitment options are being considered? This is a business they are running not a youth club.

Where have i said that i "know better" ??
I've posted an opinion and whilst attending many U19's games and junior games in the past i know full well how highly rated these lads are.
Whatever your opinions are the obvious is right in front of you in that these forward can't go on forever did you agree with Webb ,Senior ,Ali and before them Barrie Mc leaving when they all "could still have done a job"?.
I hope they are all retained and whatever the SC or squad rules state i'd take Baldwinson ,Singleton ,Sutclifffe etc etc now for the next 10yrs than retain Kirke ,Kylie and Moore for the next 1 or 2.
The Club were very good and showed no sentiments whatsoever with players that have served this Club with much more distinction when ditching them than some currently getting deals and games
With regards to Burrow ,Mags Bailey ,Ward ,Disko etc etc ALL were tied to contracts at an early age and like i've posted i personally know for a FACT the Acadamy staff all rate the current crop in that bracket.
My opinion is just that an opinion and whatever the outcome i suppport the team and Club but that deosn't mean i have to agree with every signing ,release or selection policy.
Also the places/selections would have been earned through performance when others were severely lacking in form just as Ward did when he broke through last year its the same with the lads i and others have mentioned.
Plenty of double standards from you JC you say places should be earned yet defend the selection of players not earning them through form, you agree with the Clubs record of transition with the likes of Senior et al but refuse or disagree it should be continued for others like it has in the past.
I've not once claimed to be better than those running the club but have clearly disagreed with some things that have occured is EVERYTHING they do really 100% right in your eyes???
Shall we stop posting opinions that disagree with Coaches ,players etc etc i may not be a qualified Coach or even control the squad budgets but that doesn't mean i should agree 100% with those that do.
Finally in terms of Vickery i agreed with you when defending him earlier in the year i also accept when Kirke has played well that deosn't mean they should play on indefinately or even get new deals or continue with the ones they had.
Whilst the younger lads selected may make errors and have stacks to learn ALL have shown enough potential to show they can play and in alot of cases shown they are easily a step up on certain individuals or at the very least match the jobs older lads and other squad members in front of them have done.
All i'm sayng is stick to the policy and transition plans that we have done for the last 10yrs ACROSS THE WHOLE SQUAD.
There's still time i thiink to sign these lads up and set out a clear path for their futures and i hope that the Club achieve it because plan B is glaringly obvious that we'll have to recruit 4 or even 5 minimum new Forwards over the next 18mths/2yrs when it can be avoided or at the very least be restricted to 1 maybe 2.

So that's a no to all my questions, then.

The only clear, demonstrable basis for your critique of McDermott is an extreme personal prejudice against the guy.

Let me think now. The fact that Leeds would have been dropping out from under the sticks if luiluia

had fairly tackled him behind the line rather than Leeds being on the half way line in possession 2 tackles later ought to be reason enough.

... is what Kevin Sinfield said on the subject in October last year.

Is there some equivocation in his statement the McDermott-haters would like to pick up on? Some hint of dismay expressed by our team's captain in McDermott's leadership?

Most criticisms of McDermott you're propagating can be better explained with something real: injury crisis, salary cap constraints etc. - rather than some poisonous fantasy.

A lot of people on this board prefer to form their own, ill founded, baseless opinions of our successful coach rather than take on board the facts. I'm not sure if they've had a falling out with McDermott in the past but the personal attacks and questioning of his ability is quite bizarre to be honest. I just accept it as a quirk of Southstander.com nowadays.

I'd suggest Wigan and Warrington.

Yes. I've seen games where substitutes are un-used. I've seen games where substitites are given 5-7 mins game time. I've seen us use less players over the easter period in 2012 than any other team.

It's about balance. I've made many positive comments about players from Monday's game. I've sung the praises of Hardaker, Burrow, Singleton, McShane, Baldwinson.

When analysing the 1st try I apportioned blame to players I praised and defended Kirke for his role.

It's a message board for discussion. There will be positive, there will be negative.

Given the inconsitent league form the team has shown under McDermott's tenure, the negative might be a little louder than it was when we were more consistent.

Also, Kirke is just a big fat bag of .

Who knew the swear filture would replace w**k with helpful. How helpful.

I sometimes like a good helpful

Are our tries conceded going to be analysed on a weekly basis or just when Kirke is involved?

The swear filter is w**k



EDIT: Didn't change it for me

They are. Just the other week Juan and TVOC debated a try involving Ryan Hall ad nauseum.

But, regardless, feel free to analyse and stimulate discussion after any game about any player. It's why we're here isn't?

I am having a helpful right now !!!!

No double standards R. The first choice players already in the champions squad have earned their places by playing at the highest level in all competitions. These youngsters have earned no more than the right to be considered when the opportunity arises. That does not mean they should take the place of an out of form champion who has earned the right for time to get previously proven match winning form back. eg last season

Having spent many years in rugby development I also want to see the talented youngsters coming through but they have to be ready mentally and physically. Often when they come in for injured stars it is a good time as the pressure is off them and allowances made. If a star is dropped to accomodate a youngster then that creates additional pressure which can mean nerves or trying too hard to impress cause errors that otherwise would not have happened.



Nothing is 100% right in my eyes. However I choose to give the benefit of the doubt to players and coaches who have proven themselves repeatedly at Champion level.



Nobody is saying that. Would you like me to stop posting my 100% disagreement with your opinions on this subject? (To be fair it is only 90% disagreement but that wouldn't have sounded as good. I do see your point but I disagree with it.)



Well I will agree with you that nobody should play indefinately. But when contracts are being extended none of us are in the know regarding what real options that are available at the time so again I refrain from being too critical or from making the same criticism repeatedly.



I have always said that when you play youngsters you should expect and allow some mistakes as its all part of the learning process. However, and this is the coaches dilemma, what risk do you take with unproven young talent when you also need to win each game? The first part of the season for Leeds has been tough and when we had the run of form through some big games it is understandable the coach wanted to keep a settled side and make sure of the points. Then we went into a period where most of the side hit a drop in form. Do you then drop a star who is trying to get his form back?

Take the Widnes game for example. There were enough mistakes from experienced and youngsters alike to have lost this match had it been against stronger opposition. But my point is the exerienced players have proven they do not usually make those mistakes whereas it is most likley that the youngsters will continue to make mistakes for some time to come which is part of their development. As I say this is a coach's dilemma when blooding new players = there is never a good time and in most cases it is injuries that give the best opportunities.



I didn't hear too many comments on rotating Sinfield or Mags or Hall, all who had lost form and timing at the same time.



I am sure the Leeds coaches and management know the worth of home grown talent as well as any club and will also have seen these lads day in day out over tha lest few years. Their close up view of these youngsters strengths and weaknesses will be far clearer than the one from the stands.

The article in the YEP tonight shows how Baldwinson rates Leeds and if he were to go to NZ I wouldn't be surprised if it were on a deal with Dean Bell that we have first option to resign him in a couple of years time. Equally I wouldn't be surprised if he stays put knowing he will have a great future at Headingley.

They rumour I have heard is that wire were interested and west tigers have made an offer. Baldwinson wants to play and stay at leeds and is very passionate about Playing for Leeds. Leeds have messed around and have made a poor offer and peed the lad off, New Zealand warriors have also made an better offer, the lad would prefer to stay at leeds than go to the Nrl and its up to the chief GE to pay him for his potential, over to you Garry ! We have moved griffin on and I would expect leeds would be happy to move
Moore and clarkson on also IMO of course.

My opinion regarding Baldwinson's options are:
1: If the lad genuinely wants to try his luck in the NRL, then good luck to the kid and i hope that he makes a success of it over there
2: If Jordan really wants to stay at the Rhinos but is being offered peanuts, Then i say go and take the move that's best for him, but that it's not only about money if he stops in SL and moves to another club
3: If GH is playing a game of Russian Roulette with these young kids by believing that they won't go. Then it won't be long before we lose a top player or even more or them for that matter and ones that could and would have gladly played for us for the foreseeable future

Our squad need re-rejuvenating and especially in our forwards so now is the time IMO to hang onto our cherished juniors like Baldwinson

And with Bailey on a possible NRL move then surely that frees up some cap space, unless that unknown Briscoe siging has happened....hope not, would prefer to sign up forwards given our current squad and possible exits

Careful....it doesn't pay to question the professionals and qualified staff that make these decisions. We all need to collectively agree and never ever question those that know best

Yes we need to instead unquestionably believe rumours about wage offers.....that's much better



And if we did, then one I heard a few years ago is that at the start of his career JJB was on 'peanuts' for quite a while......I doubt that he's regretting his decision.

I'd take supposed 'massive' offers from the NRL with a pinch of salt in relation to someone like Baldwinson. No NRL side will sign a junior with very little first-team experience into their first team squad.

At best, they'll make them part of their 'second tier' squad, which has its own (very low) cap. At worst they'll be more like Daniel Smith - get your own visa, get paid beer money and maybe get a job in a pub.

A second-tier NRL wage may well be significantly higher than an U19s contract in SL, but would still be far less than a genuine first team player in SL. The question is simply whether a young player wants to try their hand in Oz/NZ - financially it won't change their lives in any meaningful way.

Explains the shape of his head...

So why isn't my head lamb chop shaped then?

You mean this isn't you?