44 missed tackles (with Achurch topping the list with 7) and 23 errors would rather indicate a mental switch off and is not at all how we have played this year. I would be very disappointed if we are unable to get our defense back on track for Thursday.

This new format has seen most sides begin to look tired in the super 8s and we have had the Cup Final as an extra handicap. I hope we still have some gas left in the tank. I favor attack as the best form of defense to reduce the need for a high tackle count. Burrow and Watkins if fit and fresh will assist in this cause.

True on attack being the best form of defence. Cas have shipped 40+ in their last 3 games. With nothing to play for if we can get a couple of early scores they could well crumble.

Saints were three scores up wasn't they?

And as for Achurch, we really don't have the options. Are people really suggesting that Walters has had a better year than him when fit? If we are prepared to go to players who haven't played yet then fair enough. But if you look at Achurch over the year, where he was very good early season, rather than one game, he has actually done more than done others.

They were, but Cas knew they had to win that to keep their hopes alive....nothing to play for this week so very different.



I think the opinions on Achurch are more in terms of his future looking ahead to next year and beyond, not whether he should make the 17 next week over Walters.

Overall a shocking performance and i thought our "Leaders" went missing very early.
Individually Mc.D needs to sort the 6-7-9 out starting Sinfield at 9 Mags at 7 and playing Cuthbo as an extra pivot effectively cost us 2 players in that Mags was always isolated and Cuthbo couldn't have the impact he has at 13.
I thought Lilley looked promising at 9 but imo he's an even better 7 so that's where i'd start him with Sinfield staying at 9 but with the option to rotate between them.
Achurch was pathetic pure and simple but saying that JP looked 73 rather than 37 and Singleton/Ward aside the pack caved in and looked very leggy imo.
Again though very early in the game we didn't look right as per the Wire (SL) games & yet again senior players and the Coach failed to react and address the problems.
Hopefully it is a blip and not terminal but win or lose that 17 should have played much better than the dross they served up.
All that matters thursday is winning no more get out of jail free cards and Cas will come looking for an upset so we need 100% improvement across the board.

Read that same line a few times last week about Catalans too.




And I would agree on the future. But the posts on this board are shouldn't play for us again, and shouldn't play Thursday. I can't see any reference to next year and beyond.

But both teams in their last games were playing their last home games of the season so wanted to send off departing players in style & to give their fans something to remember till next season.
Neither factor comes into play this week.
BUT we know that Cas always raise their game against us at Headingley.
The Dragons woeful away form will likely mean two easy home wins for whomever they play over the next two weeks.

Wayne McAchurch

It could be argued that McDermott may have prepared the team badly or failed with his selections. However, I don't think any coach could have done much to address the shambles that unfolded once play was underway.

They were not prepared, and selections not right, and he obviously hoped to get away with it. However, I do think he did react and positively, because the introduction of Lilley, which no doubt he didn't plan to make until much later, did have a better effect on us. And now we have seen a player who looks good enough to have a run at this level.

I think the heat & humidity had a massive effect on the team, allied to our errors & poor discipline we had to do so much defence early on that it took a very heavy toll on all the players.
The Dragons are used to those conditions we aren't & there is never enough time to acclimatise.

The only positive from Saturdays game for me was Lilley at dummy, I wouldn't be disappointed so see him start on thursday.

A little lightweight in defence but that's to be expected, we certainly looked a bit sharper (not hard) when he came on an freed Sinfield up.

I thought Lilley did well given he hasn't played much first team and was playing in a beaten team

40 odd missed tackles, and 23 errors says it all really.

What's with the American isation of our great language fella ? Are you a yank or a wannabe ?

Mental/physical fatigue? Tired minds and bodies coming towards the end of a longer than previously normal season where they haven't had a week off?

With the new format, there aren't any games at the back end of the season like a Salford or Wakefield where you could coast and still pick up the two points. Every game is approaching play-off levels in terms of its physicality and speed.

Seven of the Super 8s got a nice week off to refresh and recuperate at the end of August. Leeds didn't. Are we seeing a reaction to that in the last couple of performances?

Possibly, although neither saints nor wigan looked especially refreshed last week. Maybe it's loss of focus arising from the distraction of Wembley. But unlike previous play off series, there ain't many easy matches available to rebuild that focus.

Shouldn't you had used the word fellow then?

As others has said the final was far from a tough "play off intensity" game, It certainly doesn't justify the drop in form since, let hope we can go some way to fixing it on Thursday.

No, but there will have been a lot of mental energy invested in the occasion and the build-up, followed by a slump afterwards when all that adrenaline wears off.

Can sometimes be difficult to top the tank back up after big occasions mentally as much as physically.

It wasn't but that wouldn't have stopped us from training and preparing ourselves to peak for that weekend. Also the Cup Final was our 10th win in our last 11 games. Would've been quite hard to keep our form going for 16/17 games towards the playoffs.

Hopefully this is just a 2 week lull and not a 4/5 week lull.

I know it seems we fell away completely last year after the CC final, but who knows, if Briscoe hadn't have dropped that ball with the game won in the playoffs against Catalan, We may have kicked it up a gear the following week at a Saints side who were no great shakes with no half backs and then on to OT. its obvious the side are holding back right now, we have done this every year under Mac and it worked a treat in 2011 and 2012. I would be very surprised though if we are not right back at it against Cas this week after a 2 week mental break, with the opportunity to wrap up the Hub Cap if Saints can turn Wigan over on friday.

The Friday game's an interesting prospect. On the one hand, I haven't seen a right lot from saints to support Wilkin's bleating about them being one of only two serious challengers for the GF. I think Walmsley's sitting it out too, which won't help their cause. Then I look at Wigan who results-wise would seem to be coming good at the right time. Performance-wise they've been little better than saints though and some of their away form has been dreadful. Really don't know who to tip for this one. Perhaps Wigan, if only because it's probably not in Wane's nature to turn his back on a potential LLS. Wouldn't surprise me if he plays his strongest side, psychs it up to ridiculous levels, then pays the price as they hit a slump straight after a demolition job on Saints. Here's hoping.

I expect Leeds to shake off the lethargy of the last two weeks and put in a performance that will really put Cas to the sword. The senior players will be/should be embarrassed with their performances last week which should be a spur to an enhanced showing against a side they should be able to beat at a canter.

Having watched the Golden Decade DVD there seems no doubt that last year winning the CC wiped the team out for a long period of time. I'm sure they planned to get past Catalans and then ramp it up, but IMO they left it too late to try to regain form. This year the mental effect will be lessened.

Hopefully they've learned a bit from last year in terms of not waiting till sudden death to try to get into form. At most they've got four games left in their Leeds careers, I just can't see Peacock, Sinfield and Leuluai not at least giving it a good shake this time.