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No I'm not. I really like both. I'm just pointing that as fans we often seem blind to the failings of our home grown players, whilst being really keen to give the overseas lads a bashing.

Yep and leeming's limitations in the halves just compound it. He can throw a half decent pass from dummy but falls far short when picking a runner while on the move, especially when moving it on any distance.
That said, a fit gale and new signings mean leeming reverts to starting hooker and Dwyer impact sub which obviously corrects a lot of problems

Correct though hopefully the coaches provide more objectivity. Enthusiasm is great but I'd hope there's more said behind closed doors.

I don’t think anyone is bashing any player. Prior has been immense at times for us. In fact he has had games where he’s raised it to a level other players can’t match.

It’s fair to say we haven’t seen that player in the last quarter of the season unfortunately. He is a quality player - hopefully age isn’t going to catch up with him too much over the next 2 years.

Zane I’ve been very disappointed with. Mitigating circumstances this year, as I’ve said benefit of the doubt and see how he goes next year. It’s a play-off game last night and a marquee should be among the best on the pitch. What was it, 11 tackle misses? Something isn’t right there, let’s hope it is recoverable COVID symptoms / legacy from his Achilles or something.

What does Agar mean in his presser by 'digging into the line too soon'?

Newman is a good player, also has the potential to be a great player. Probably had a rude awakening last night due to the intensity of the saints aggressive defence. Different scenario from most teams he has faced this year, I do have some sympathy with him as the service he is receiving is woeful. The imbalance across the three quarters is shocking. Not much ability on view to pass and put him through a gap. I am not sorry to see hurell leave , initially pretty good then developed into a bit of showman.

Hitting up from first receiver too often I imagine. Predictable and it allowed saints to hit our carrier with 3 tacklers simultaneously. Their use of runners was far better

Again I think Hurrell has hardly been fit for a year now.

It's a disgrace this saints team is going to win 3 on the trot. Everyone is so crap, they don't even have to work for it.

Anyone think Cats will beat them?

Saints will probably win three on the trot because they are significantly better than the rest. But anything can happen in a one-off game. Last night the Rhinos were blown away by amazing line speed and group defence right across the park, not just the forwards. Regardless of any creativity in the half’s, if your pack is retreating the game is lost. However, we have much to learn from this season and should look forward to 2022 and beyond with optimism. The additions to the squad will bring more balance and with a bit of luck with injuries we should make a stepped improvement. We have weaknesses in the team and lack of pace in wide areas but we should remain positive moving forward. I feel the future will be good for the Rhinos and I do sense for the competition as whole. We will not be the only team making a major improvement in 2022.

Really hope not.
I know it means 3 on the bounce for Saints, but prefer that to a Cats win.
Can't have the Tompkins and MciLorum grubs winning the GF.
Horrible team Cats.

So just like 2006 then

If Saints do win the Grand Final there is an arguement that they are the best team we've ever had. I'm not sure any team of the Super League past could cope with the intensity and defense this side has. The line speed and aggression is frightening.

Let’s not get carried away with this saints side. They have been fabulous this season and I have praised them for this season’s efforts.
Reluctantly I have to point out the standard of the teams in super league this season have been dire. That’s helped them enormously, perhaps I may be biased but the best Leeds team with peacock, sinfield,McGuire, burrow etc etc wouldn’t have a problem beating the current saints side.

Agreed. One thing you can say about this Saints team is they don’t work hard.

Makes me chuckle when people say this Saints would get well beaten against teams of yore. Jeez the line speed they showed on Fri was way in advance of anything the goldens ever faced. Absolutely magnificent.

Yeah the standard of Super League opposition is nothing compared to the magnificent Crusaders team we beat 68-0 at Rodney Parade or the truly amazing Widnes teams we used to face in SL. Some of the opposition the goldens faced was poor. Thats not to detract from the great team we had but i guarantee some Wigan used to criticise our team and say they would get murdered against the great Wigan teams of the 80s and 90s. Of course we wouldnt have.

This Saints team is a fine team with no weaknesses really. Look across the Saints team and tell me what you would target? Personally i think they are a terrific team and should be applauded. They could dominate for years yet.

They are a good side, we’ll see if they have it their own way against another physical side in Cats next week.

Saints will be favourites but I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion.

I actually hope Cats win it, not because I don’t like St Helens but because I think it would be a great shot in the arm for the game. Toulouse may well be coming up and this could be a golden era for French RL. The competition has been quite stale with GF winners let’s face it.

Totally agree. I expect them to win on Saturday, and if they do, I hope they get the NRL champs over early next year. Not saying they would get a win, but they have the style and ferocity to make it difficult for s rusty Aussie team.

Agree that this is an outstanding Saints team in the context of the current competition. Very well coached and certainly the best team the last 3 years. Its very hard to measure greatness as you can only beat whats in front of you. In terms of their grand final wins they have beaten Salford and a Wigan team ( in the last minute) that is been universally slated twelve months later. A win against a very good Catalan team will significantly enhance their reputation. They have also not been tested against a top NRL side.
Are we guilty of thinking the current Leeds team is better than it is and by the nature of that assessment raising the standing of Saints because they are so much better than us. The James Graham/Paul Wellens team that lost a number of fgrand finals was an outstanding team that consistently finished league leaders despite losing one off finals mainly to Leeds. How many leeds players that started on Friday would get into a starting 17 made up of the grand final winning years. I would suggest possibly only Oledski potentially on the bench. Maybe that's a different thread! If Catalans win and do the double are they going to get the respect that they deserve for the outstanding job that McNamara has done?

I agree - this is a very good Saints side.
But for me, the difference is the coaching.
Player for player, on paper, I don't think we're too far off them.
But yes, their line speed, their aggression, their discipline, movement and fitness was a million miles from ours.
Thats' about the coaching.

By the way, I'm not calling for Agar's head. Far from it.
I just think they have very good players, who are superbly coached.

This Saints team is a fine team with no weaknesses really. Look across the Saints team and tell me what you would target? Personally i think they are a terrific team and should be applauded. They could dominate for years yet.'"

Most definitely have a better coach Saints.