I dnt think putting bjb at FB is the answer he has looked extremely suspect under the high ball all season made a hash of a few kicks in the grand final i would rather get smith fit and see how he goes

Webb to Warriors sounds daft and illogical with Locke being the incumbent FB.

IF Webb does go then I'm in the Smith to FB camp. Give the lad a chance to prove his worth with an EXTENDED run in the position.

I agree BJB looks a little suspect under the high ball. Hardaker would go well there, but that is because he is an exceptional talent who would go well in any back position ( inc stand off

). Watkins too has played FB. Plenty of options.

i see DP was saying that hardaker could play at the highest level at SO, he certainly has the footwork, pace, and remember earlier in the season when he scored twice against catalans, when he was coming infield looking for the ball, and turning to my bro, and saying the kid would be a great 1 or 6 in the long term.

I think we'll make one more signing but like everyone has already stated we should only do so, if he is of the right quality

Why give Lee Smith a "stab" at Full Back ??

He has shown to be more than capable when he plays there. Seem that he is not being given a chance with your (now) "Super Coach".





Time will tell !

I have no idea why the head scratching? I said give smith a go there and you seem to agree?

Yes sorry Ferdy - it has been a long day

But I really believe that Lee Smith has been given a raw deal from this Coach. If Lee was given a real chance; then he can play either FB, Centre or Wing. Apologies again Ferdy - I will read your posts in more detail mate

No worries just confused with what I had put!!!

Agree I like smith at full back and I know he hasn't been the same since return from rah, rah, but particulary in his last game of regular season I thought he looked good and would be more than happy to see him at FB

Smith has e ability ,we all know that .Tony Smith knew how to handle him 2007 it looked like Smith was a goner,Smithy made him water carrier ,not even on the bench,it was just the kick up the backside he needed .If he went anywhere I wouldnt be surprised if TS took hime to Wire

It shouldn't require a coach to drop a player for them to know they're not playing well. Players also know better than anyone else how fit/unfit they are. Smith is old enough to not need hand-holding in either regard.

Whilst Smith hasn't had lots of opportunities this season he hasn't taken the opportunities that he was given. In his present state he seems too slow to present a threat at either full back, wing or centre and doesn't give a big defensive display to make up for that lack of attacking threat.
Now I wouldn't necessarily advocate getting rid of him because he's useful backup and I don't think 1 poor season is reason enough to get rid of a player but unless he really turns around his physical attributes and his form then he'd be well behind the likes of Watkins, Hardaker, Jones-Bishop, Webb, Delaney & Ablett for a spot in the team. And I certainly wouldn't be happy going with him as first choice full back in his current state, if Webb were to leave.


Got to agree with you there, Brisbane.

If there is anything in this, what about Webb going over to be McClennan's assistant?

Both Webb and Leuluai look like their bodies aren't really up to it now. Their early success at Leeds relied on being very physical (less so for Webb, but he is getting battered virtually every other time he returns the ball), and I wouldn't be surprised if either decided to go early after the way this season ended on a high. Both players have younger competition lining up to take their places and I reckon if the right offer comes in we could see a 'Magnificent 7-esque' U-turn from either in the vein of Donald, Diskin etc.

BTW, this is pure speculation.

WRT to Lee Smith over the year's he's had ample opportunity to nail a threequarter spot and has failed to do so.

He's provided great service in a utility role and had some very big performances in big games but he's rightly well behind Hardaker, BJB, Hall and Watkins in the pecking order now.

If Webb is not full back I'd much rather see BJB there than Smith.

I also sense, and this is complete speculation, there are attitude issues with Smith these days. I'd like him to stay as cover for the threequarters but I suspect he won't be happy with that role.

I'd like to see Webb gone, and Smith handed the number 1 shirt full stop.

If he is given the run and it isn't working for say June time, then we revert to BJB at fullback. Personally I think Smith will be back to his best, given a run in that fullback spot. He produced the best fullback performance out of the players who played fullback for Leeds this season gone, and this despite according to some looking unfit, overweight, and not in the right frame of mind.

At the risk of being called a Gotcha groupie...again I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Smithy has done nothing since his return from RU, where he was pretty quickly found wanting. If he is to have a future in League, then I reckon he will have to move clubs, and show his new coach some of the 2007 Lee Smith. For me, Wakey would give him that opportunity.

It could be that he is one of the players whose development plateaus at a fairly early age in his career, and he simply never kicks on. Maybe he's happy just to take the wage he's on for a couple more years, without being too bothered about claiming a spot at Headingley.

Either way, despite his utility value, he's well down the pecking order, and pretty much a fringe player, and wouldn't be that much of a loss to the squad.

And before the BJB groupies get all excited, there's a hell of a lot of close season work to be done before he claims Webby's shirt.

Which big game was that in?

Smith at Leeds' first and foremost goal should be to get in the team. Never mind handed a solid spot.

The only time he started a game at fullback last season wasn't it?

Wakie IIRC?

He was solid, like the other 16 in a heavily one sided game.

Not the best game to make big decisions on? How many games did Smith play after that commanding display? Indeed.

There was plenty of other games last season against poor sides where others played the role. I still didn't see another individual display from fullback as good as that one from Smith.

Quite correct to say not one to make big decisions on, but when you only get one starting chance in that position it's the only one you can judge the player on for that role. If we then go back to previous seasons before that, we then see quite a few man of match awards in that role, including a GF winning MOM.

Judging his centre displays last season to determine whether he should be given a fullback shot is just wrong.

If you're going to go back to a one off game in 2008 why not go back to several games in 2006 when he was given a run in the position after Mather's injury? IIRC he lost the jersey to Jordan tansey by season's end.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion but I saw nothing but slow, cumbersome, underwhelming displays from Smith last year including that exhilarating game against Wakefield that has whetted your appetite. He completely lacks the pace, excitement and hunger that the younger players who are ahead of him have shown and I saw nothing to think he merited a jersey ahead of those that finished the season 1-5.

Agreed. Though the coaching staff doubtless have greater insight into fitness and attitude. These may be the factors that explain why LS hasn't featured more frequently.

Come on Gareth, is that really fair?

Was Smith not a regular in 2008? was he not 3 years into his first team career rather than one? These need to be taking into account when comparing somebody in a specific role.

2006 was completely wrong year to judge Smith. The team was playing poor, and the coach had lost the momentum that year. History has proven, when it comes to Lee Smith when he is a bit part player he fails to shine, but when a coach has faith in him and gives him a run in a position he ends up staring. Tony Smith alluded to that in 2007, when he reflected on not picking him in 2006 and the transformation in the player come 2007. Just look at 2009, the player was ready to be shipped out, but got his chance and took it big style, with the club then regretting their position and offering him a new deal too late.

If he's a utility back, which is how he has been used and how people are judging him, then he is undoubtedly the best utility back in the competition. If he is a centre, then he is hit and miss and just does a job, which isn't enough when up againts specialist competition. If he is a winger, then he is still better than most other teams 2nd winger. If he is a fullback, then IMO he is the best fullback we have at the club for 2012. Webb is not the pre 2009 player.

I think he is a utility back. I think he's the next best player at almost every position 1-5 now. I suspect he won't be happy but I'd agree that he is one of the best utility backs in the league.

IMO he's the 3rd best full back behind Webb and BJB and tbh I'd rather see Hardaker back there.

PS, using your criteria to Judge Smith he finished 2009 as a very good centre and put in a dominating GF display there. Yet you judge him "hit and miss".

When did he last string together more than two or three outings at FB and just what is it, other than the 2008 Grand Final that has inflated your opinion of him so much?

Exactly, but he's been ineffecitve in that role this year. Therfore "hit and miss", sometimes great (2009 GF example), sometimes poor (2011 example).




When did he last have that opportunity of a run in that role? He did it last year when Webb was out injured, and was a success, this after his return from union. He did it in 2008 when Webb got injured. Interesting that you mention 2006 previously, because until he lost confidence he was looking every bit the star in that role.

He's been unlucky that Leeds have had an extremely good overseas player in that role for the last few years, at a time when Smith was still learning the game (remember he's still only 25). Had he been given that role, IMO he would have been a huge success, and still can/will be.

Like I said, he can not be written off from that role just because he's been hit and miss at centre. They are two completely different roles. And the player that was blocking that path previously in Webb is most certainly not the same player he was.

Didn't we also start 2009 experimenting with Watkins at FB. He looked pretty handy there as well, then he did his knee.