Looking forward to a thread on JJB.

He wasn't the only one though - how Leeds thought they could beat Wigan with players who were not even fit to play Salford defies belief.

You could see it after five minutes of the second half, never taking the ball up, never supporting play, waiting around on the wing, no confidence when the ball did come to him. Not what Watkins usually does. My Mrs said it was like the ghost of Joe Vickery. For me it was more like the ghost of Senior in Cardiff.

Badly in need of a decent hooker and Sutcliffe should have come on for Watkins at half time. Wigan coaching team spotted the weakness and exploited it. I also fear for McGuire next year. Moon JP and Ablett played well to say we had no half backs or hooker tonight.

I thought most of the team just looked very fatigued, rather than actually injured. Watkins wasn't well enough to carry on after a tackle in the first half and JJB went off and never returned from what I recall.

What about sutcliffe to the centre.
I hope that we see ablett given the chance now to stay in the back row

What about sutcliffe to the centre.
I hope that we see ablett given the chance now to stay in the back row

What about sutcliffe to the centre.
I hope that we see ablett given the chance now to stay in the back row

There was something to be said for replacing Watkins with Sutcliffe at centre (as IMO this could be his best position) however after such a big tackling effort from us in the first half it was always likley that they would run in a few easy tries as we tired late in the game and I guess BM wanted Clarkson and Sutcliffe to come on to keep their forwards from opening us up. Watkins even on one leg has the talent to make an opening for someone else.

I do not believe had we fielded a different team our defence or attack would have been any better. Wigan were fresh and at home and we were tired from a tough extra game and from the injured returning just a bit too late to get their sharpeness back in attack.

No disgrace we were in it for most of the game and we closed down Tompkins and Charnley very well. So big well done to players and coach

our last tackle plays, lack of creativity, and fielding unfit players, Watkins should of been subbed, as said in a previous post slagging BJB performance, the bloke took more drives than half our forwards and I don't rate him but he didn't have a bad game tonight, I cant really single anybody out for having a bad game because I thought the majority of the team ran their blood to water, especially JP.

You find it very difficult to criticise this coach don't you? Really cannot comprehend how you can defend him keeping a close to incapacitated centre on the field with fresh legs on the bench, particularly when one of which could have been used as a [udirect[/u replacment.
McDermott's inability to use his bench effectively has been a debilitating factor all season.

Well you would say that. Did you read my post? I suppose you think we could have won had we played the U19s.

Nah....U16s maybe

So lets ignore the fact Jjb ,Watkins ,Mcguire and Bjb all started when clearly injured?
Or lets ignore how long it was into the game before Clarkson or Sutty even got a sniff??
The lads gave their all and desreve the credit for that ,we have been spoiled over the last decade to witness such talent ,fire & predominatly homegrown talent do so well for us aided by some outstanding backroom staff and very good coaches.
Saying that AS a Champion Club should questions not be asked?
80 minutes from another GF is it really tactically/selection wise astute enough to select 4 players who CLEARLY are not even nearly fit enough for a play off semi final??

Watkins started the game with strapping on his knee, he must have injured it in training because i don't recall him hurting his knee last week.
If he withdraws from the WC squad that will be a big blow for England.

At this stage of the season many players take the field in a patched up condition. Coaches have to make difficult decisions and sometimes take risks. I very much doubt if we had started without the 4 players you mention we would have been in the game at half time. Did you ignore the fact that last week McGuire was also CLEARLY not fully fit yet put in a beautiful kick for Moon's try against the Saints, was unlucky not to score under the posts and won the game for us with the drop kick, Do you believe that McGuire should not have played last week then ?

JC-Cut out the BS and if you really need to feel free to look back over my previous posts re-injurys/selection.
Now are you seriously and in all honesty defending and agreeing with tonights selection policy and ALSO how we used the bench??
Last week means jack sh## ,today before the Team Bus left Leeds the Coach had some selection calls to make knowing full well the fitness situation amongst his available squad so are you seriously saying he was "Spot on" to gamble on not just 1 BUT 4 players within the 17 and to add to the woe use his bench the way he did?
If you agree and i mean "Honestly" then we have no more to discuss but no amount of history ,past results or quality of the players elceted can imo justify such a massive gamble in a play off semi final.
Not 1 player but 4 FFS come on Wayne Bennett wouldn't even take that punt!!

Don't get so emotional. Its only a game. I know you are upset, we all are dissappointed not to make the final once more but really the odds were heavily against us and as I have said we lost our best chance by losing to Warrington.

I do not know the exact percentages of fitness of our squad but then neither do you. So I refrain from making such medical judgements but I would hazard a guess that there were more than 4 players who were patched up. I note you have not answered my question regarding the coaches decision to play an unfit McGuire last week?

"Second rower Jamie Jones-Buchanan was one of the Leeds players who defied injury to play in their biggest game of the season.

He came off eight minutes before half-time and his knee injury could scupper his chances of playing for England in the World Cup.

"He shouldn't have been on the field," McDermott said. "His ligament is hanging on by a thread.

"It's up to Jonesy whether he's available for the World Cup. If it goes, it goes, if not he could do a job."

Straight from the mouth of our coach. Given this knowledge should he have been selected tonight or should we have gone with Achurch or Clarkson starting and Singleton on the bench....

I seem to remember Tony Smith getting a real slating after playing an unfit Keith Senior in the 2005 cup final V Hull FC, I wonder what will happen after this admission by BMD?

I answered clearly when i said "check my previous" posts re-fitness i even said Mags should be on the bench and Sutty starting at 6 with Burrow at 7 and Sinfiled at9/13 when he returned.
As for knowing the %'s were you watching the warm up/game??
It was Clear to a blind Cyclops the 4 who were not even 65% fit that's before we kick off or even 15 minutes in.
You can shrug it off as emotion maybe it's part of it but it was clear to ANYONE who watched that game what we/the Coach got wrong tonight.
Now i'm not saying he should be sacked i've left that in the past but was it really a gamble worth taking even before the bus left Leeds this afternoon?
There's no excuse JC it's that simple and even considering that the bench rotation was very poor for a double GF winning Coach.

I said in the week he shouldn't play if he wasn't properly fit and got a sarcastic ''thank you doctor'' response.

[i''Shouldn't have been on the field'' ''ligament hanging by a thread'[/i' from the horses mouth. It wasn't a calculated risk by mcdermott it was outright stupidity.

The amount of players we had injured who suddenly became miraculously available for the playoffs I can't help feel they've been rushed back and as a result have never been properly fit.

Dice was rolled and it came up snake eyes.it was always a big ask and mac wanted as many key players in as possible.backfired tonight but i find it hard to see us turning the tables had singleton,achurch,sutcliffe and clarkson been in from the start.

i can understand BM wanting his big players out there but to play four who were nowhere nearly fit was stupid imo.

but away from that wigan played with structure and a coach who rotated his forwards, kept them fresh and had a hooker and half back who dictated the games.

leeds battled well but never looked like winning.

one more thing. burrow was magnificent at 7. take note please coach

He was rubbish tad. People talk about structure, and Burrow is the exact reason why we don't play with any.

Run so many times and a couple of times you are going to make a break. So many times he ran up his own Harris. His kicking game was shocking. That is why Sinfield should be no where near dummy half after the first three tackles. Unless you have another decent long range kicker, which we don't, then you don't have your only one at the play the ball.

I have been critical of McGuire, and he played on one leg last night, but still looked far more dangerous in a creative fashion than Burrow. But I do agree with the sky team that perhaps McGuire should have been at dummy half.

Well I back our coach. Reckon he knows dam sight more about his squad than a load of keyboard warriors. A proven hooker would be a great addition, but who's available?