I don't miss those days but I still prefer to watch rugby on a Sunday afternoon.
Then home for one of my wife's excellent Sunday dinners.

I cannot understand the continued attack on Ryan Bailey I thought he had a good game when he came on, he is clearly carrying an injury, but in defense he saved two trys with tackles, I was very impressed.

Well you know what people can be like on here when they don't like a player.

Apparently he was anonymous yet somehow snuck his way around to 30 tackles with 11 marker tackles. He's made 161 tackles in his last 5 games at an average of 32.2 per game with only 4 missed tackles in total......dreadful. Admittedly he could be doing a bit more/better in offence but the usual OTT reaction on here is to be sadly expected.

How many were "at the cricket" because on every picture or video I have seen of the game there looks to be more like 17k/18k than 14k there.

14/15K would be about right. The west stand was very patchy.

There were about 3,000 at the cricket

Bailey is still young. His go forward is similar to McGuire's at least. He has not yet reached his peak as a prop.. .. Cough!

Yes.



No. Not "always" he doesn't.

Bish will not mind being compared to one of the all time great fullbacks when fit. I think it a bit churlish to suggest BJB's 3 misses against Salford were any worse than the 33 that our other players missed which included 4 by your "entrusted" Hardaker.

What exactly are you trying to argue here?

Hardaker is the best defensive back we have, bar none. That is the simple truth. So if you are trying to suggest otherwise you are being silly.

The discussion was about Bish missing 3 Tackles. Hardaker has been in outstanding form this season and his game is based on strong physicality which includes tackling. However he has some improvement to do on his defensive positional sense.

I don't want to upset your boozing chum but I think there is a good case to say that both Watkins and Moon are better defenders than Hardaker. By the way has Hardaker got over his missed holiday in some sunny bar or is he still a bit peeved?

People attacking a player based on number of carries need to understand the game is far more about more than just carrying the ball, its about doing the job you've been asked to do, rather than the number on your back. 4 carries is low, but 30 tackles more than makes up for it.

If a forward does a 20 minute spell and during that spell their team only has 30-40% of possession, then their opportunity to make carries is going to be reduced but they'll probably have to make more tackles.

There's more to it than "X is lazy".

Actually, to be fair, that is a very valid point with regards Bailey on Monday. Didn't he come on at 16 minutes? I think from about 25 minutes to half time, it was all Salford with the ball.

Watkins has always been a poor reader of play and makes numerous wrong decisions on defence especially when defending 2/3 men in. McDermott I believe recognised this issue and sought to help him improve by moving him in to fourth man.

If Watkins were to ever fancy a go in the NRL he would IMO need to show a quantum improvement in his defensive reads to not be mercilessly exposed on a weekly basis.

IIRC he defended either one or two in against Australia in Cardiff, opposite Greg Inglis. Had GI in his pocket for pretty much the full 80 minutes.

Hardaker over Bjb at FB for me every time I've seen Hardaker make plenty of one on one Try saving tackles since he moved there some of which when the odds were in favour of the attacker.
I rate Bjb but for me he is still very much 2nd choice FB and 3rd choice W or Centre.

That would probably have been one in off the wing as I seem to recall it was refreshing to see an English coach not feeling the need to hide his half-backs - something you don't really need to do with quality players.

Inglis must have got out of Watkin's pocket long enough to set up Australia's opening score for Thurston and they came back that way again for their second for Bird (although that was Sinfield's miss IIRC) and again for their last score as Inglis' run had drawn Watkins in as the ball went out the back.

Those were well executed plays and not as a result of the all too typically seen Watkins obviously coming in as the defence is drifting out or charge out of the line leaving huge space in behind which has been a familiar trademark of his at Leeds.

As I said McDermott moving him further infield I think has given him less decisions to make and I stand by my comment re-Watkins that if he went over to the NRL he would be targetted mercilessly.

I agree with Andy entirely. Watkins held Inglis in check (the try was nothing to do with Watkis defensive skills, more Tomkins lack of height).

I thought Watkins edged the battle with Inglis that day. Even if he didn't and he only came close that is enough to question the validity of your opinion on Watkins defensive capabilities. based upon his one direct showing with arguably the best in the world I'd imagine Watkins would welcome and pass any merciless test that may come his way.

It's a not unreasonable claim that limiting GI to just 3 critical assists resulting in 3 Australian tries is tantamount to keeping him in check.

The claim that Watkins had GI in his pocket is a laughable one however.

Who was it who kept Jamie Lyon completely in check in the 2012 WCC? Can't remember if it was Watkins or another of Juan's "defensively suspect" backs Zak Hardaker.

The discussion was focused on defence - my opinion on Watkins defensive skills were not made on the basis of any one game in isolation.



Leeds' defensive 'left centre' opposite Lyon in that game was probably McGuire rather than either starting centres. Watkins was offensively opposite Matai - defensively opposite whoever was playing left second-row.

The discussion goes where the discussion goes, whether you like it or not. I was agreeing with Andy.

I don't share your view about Watkins defence. Not sure what the relevance of what NRL opponents may or may not do if he theoretically played in that competition but as you introduced this hypothetical into the discussion it was valid of Andy to reference the time he faced off against probably the best the NRL has to offer in that position.

In that game, and Leeds WCC games (again real life opposition from the NRL) I've seen no evidence to suggest any Australasian opponents mercilessly targetted Watkins or that he struggled in any way.

So, we have the actual real life examples of NRL teams facing Kallum Watkins and you opinion of what NRL teams might do when facing Watkins.

Seeing as someone mentioned Manly and we are talking defending Watkins went through "Shoulders" Matai like he was an 8yr old girl for his try at HQ yet not much defensive frailty was seen coming the other way!

Watkins defence in the NRL would be analagous in many respects to what is currently being demonstrated on a weekly basis by Sam Tomkins.

Citing highly selective examples from pre-season WCC warm-up fixtures is right up there in the desperation stakes as judging the quality of a player by the number of SL rings in his possession.


Regards,
Ian Kirke.

I'd need to review those specific games for examples of wrong options taken but I've noted SL sides exploiting this weakness and IMO so did McDermott when moving Watkins to forth man in on the right. There he has more tackles to make but fewer difficult decisions. It's not that he can't tackle it's the number of times he acted against the defensive unit that was the problem.