I like Smith but I'm still not 100% sure hes the right man to lead us forward, but I think he needs to be given a chance, as he has shown last season that he can motivate a team to success and hes shown glimpses this year that he can get the team playing great rugby.

He just needs to get the team playing consistently well, with another clear out at the end of this season and his mark stamped on the squad i think we will be in a better place to judge him.

Agree on all points.

I wouldn't say hunger, but I would deffo say cutting edge.

Work smarter not harder is the mantra but we really have taken some huge wrong turns and made things far, far harder than they needed to be.

I like Smith and hope he's given time to learn from the disappointments of this season (so far). The inconsistent form is an issue. The coach is only part of the equation though. A missing element since the McDermott era is youth development. There are signs this is improving (especially in the forwards) but Newman aside I'm nervous about the lack of obviously good quality outside backs and halves coming through.

Smith frequently alludes to the policing of the ruck and the flow of the game. I could be well off the mark with this, but it seems that we struggle most against teams using cynical tactics to slow down the ruck when we are in possession, but Smith doesn't want us to resort to the same tactics. It is noticeable how much referees are letting teams get away with laying on in the tackle this season. Clearing up the ruck would make a big difference, but at the same time I wonder whether Smith just needs to adapt better to the way the game is being refereed over here.

My issue with the ruck point, is that he’s just not learning to adapt. The definition of insanity etc. etc.

I take your point, he problem is if all coaches just adapt to those tactics its just going to get worse

to be honest if the ruck doesn't change He'll probably just want to go back to Aus anyway. It's the most frustrating part of SL at the moment, its ruining the spectacle.

Agreed, it does need cleaning up but they won’t do it mid season. He needs to adapt and then lobby behind the scenes with other coaches, owners and players associations etc. to get it changed.

I don’t think the RFL are gonna he type of organisation that changes it’s position due to public criticism, just look at the judiciary for example.

referees are responsible for the ruck. they could stop it in weeks by penalising interferences. might not be pretty for a few games but it would sort it

Totally. It's not hard to imagine that part of the attraction for RS was building his coaching skills, experimenting with ideas and developing players. Opportunity to do any of these right now is stymied by the way the game's being played over here.

Agree. Treat interference as a professional foul. Which, after all, it is.

Agreed. He plays the game or attempts to, to how he thinks the ruck should be ‘Policed’ but it not only differs over here compared to the NRL, it can differ from week to week in SL and he doesn’t seem able or willing to change, thinking/hoping that the game over here will eventually come round to his way of thinking in how the ruck should be Policed.

I think his main issue is the inconsistency so in that regard it’s difficult to change your style.

I don’t mind the six again rul but it needs to change, it should be a penalty in your own 40 and repeat offences in the same set should be a penalty.

Not playing or at least not attempting to with the foot should be penalties, at the moment it’s a lottery ad to what you get, I don’t blame the referees they are just as confused IMO

Oh and while they are at it, why aren’t flops being penalised they happen all the time

They're rumours they are talking about bringing in the Video Ref at all games. I'd much rather they bring in an extra official to control the ruck. Might be a great way to build young refs experience and confidence. In fairness they could bin the Video ref entirely for me. I much prefer games without it.

Some cracking posts on this thread, and agree with a lot that’s been said. We’ve definitely lost our cutting edge with regards to coaching appointments and recruitment.

Recruitment in particular has been pretty woeful in recent seasons and teams like saints have consistently got it right along with having great homegrown spine players and bringing in very good head coaches which is why they’ve had so much success. It’s going to take some time to get it right at Leeds but I think a lot of fans are fatigued over the last 7 years or so with the really poor on the field performance. That’s been far too long a period and Hetherington has to take a lot of the blame for that. I’d also be interested to see how much money Caddick has pumped in, he’s a very wealthy man indeed.. we shouldn’t be struggling financially.

It’ll come back the success I’m sure, we’ve definitely made strides with youth development but we shouldn’t be losing likes of Walters. It’s happening too often in recent years, we very very rarely lost good young players in our pomp years and I think that’s due to our lack of success on the field

I definitely think the ambition of the club is different to the likes of Saints, Wigan, Wire and Cats.
They all want to finish top.
You can see that in the way they recruit.
They know where their gaps are and act early. They have a plan.
OK, it doesn't work at Wire, but you can't fault the ambition.
Look at how Wigan are recruiting for next year.
And look at how quickly Saints have acted with Clark and Mbye at 9.
Our recruitment in contrast always seems desperate and last minute.
Our ambition these days is to scrape into the top 6.
The club see that as appeasing fans.
And maybe we can scrape a win or tow in the play-offs.
That would be success - and would keep up ticket sales.
Unfortunately the corporate side is more important than trophies.

For me, it books down to two things. We took our eye off the ball with the junior setup. We have produced some ok players in that period, but no real established internationals in that period. Looking at the England vs team, we don't really have anyone regularly in there.
Secondly, our transition from the golden generation was woeful, and we've been on the backfoot ever since, and our signings have been generally poor.

Without the solid base of great youngsters coming through, more emphasis has been on signings, and we havent been able to get played of the right calibre to come and stay to help build a team around

Another brief mitigating factor has been injuries: right back to Ward who had to retire early (was a cracking player), Jack Walker was looking a real prospect at FB and then we’ve had other key players like Newman injured for long periods. All clubs get this but ai do think it’s effected Leeds.

One wonders how well the club managed some of those injuries.

Walker was thrown in early as a teenager and made an impact. But I wonder if he had been introduced a bit more slowly (Gannon-style) then the toil on his body could have been reduced.

Stevie Ward's issues with concussion sound horrific. Another player who seemed a bit too small for the position he was played in. It always baffled me why Ward wasn't brought through as a stand-off, which would have protected him from a lot of the collisions he was routinely subjected to. Imagine if we had the option of Ward as a half - it couldn't be any worse than Cameron Smith, who has the skills but not the speed of awareness or body to make the most of them.

Jury is still out on whether we can get on top of Newman's recurrent injury woes. I wonder if playing him at full-back might get the best out of him, and perhaps create fewer opportunities for him to have to suddenly put the foot on the gas which seems to come with extra risk of hamstring aggravations (???).

Another player with injury issues we didn't get the most out of was Kallum Watkins. With a bit more foresight we could have kept him as a useful squad player, even if he had lost confidence at centre.

all clubs have injuries. that's not a valid excuse imo

All teams have them. But we do seem to have been disproportionately hit when it comes to our best young players. No idea why. Some of it is luck, but it certainly hasn’t helped.

Not entirely linked but interesting that Warrington have recalled Riley Dean now that Powell has gone.

If we are saying injuries are to blame for our current woes then lack of quality in the squad to cover is also a factor, is the club actively doing it's best to rectify these issues?

I don’t think anyone’s saying it’s to blame, just that it’s a contributing factor.

To your other point, I think the signings of Mcdonell, Roberts, Hooley, Olpherts and Ruan were made with that in mind. Didn’t Smith last year say he was shocked that he was 1/2 injuries from throwing 17 year olds in. I’d say that’s been rectified. Granted Olpherts (and maybe Hooley) don’t look to have worked out but the other three are/look like they could be handy squad players at a minimum.

Some really interesting points - with a club of our size and financial muscle we shouldn't be struggling as we are. Is there some deeper undercurrent in the culture of the club that is holding back progress. We now the over reliance on the golden generation was an issue - thankfully this has passed. Having heard rumours as to how the club treated certain players plus the treatment of Furner is Leeds considered a toxic environment that stops the recruitment of the best youngsters and overseas players?

Listening to a part of a podcast Blake Austin was on that was posted on Twitter today seems like GH might be part of the problem?

Was talking about the NZ game after the Grand Final last year and despite 10 players been away on the after the GF for several days they were all told that they had to play the NZ World Cup friendly and if they didn’t they would be in breach of contract. Was saying Martin asked GH if he could withdraw on basis that if he he got injured in a friendly he’d miss representing PNG at the World Cup but was told he had to play

That’s if he’s not embellishing things a little, I don’t think he’s doing his contract negotiations any good, don’t think current players should be slagging off the club like that in my opinion.

The NZ game was announced in may, Austin makes it sound like it was planned within a week.