Yes, it's not that i don't agree with you regards talent breaking through because i think we all want to see that happen, that has been glaringly obvious in the hooking role where a few chances have arose in recent years and not been taken by lads not quite good enough so we have been forced to look overseas.

We have done ok with the three quarters imo, Watkins, BJB, Walker, Calderwood, Smith, Handley (getting better) all top level SL players at one time or another over the last decade and our three quarter line has been international quality for the last few years so little opportunities around. It was nearly impossible for a half to break through with McGuire and Sinfield around for a decade so that position speaks for itself, and like i said above hooking role has been an area we have struggled with really since Diskin/Buderus. As far as forwards go we haven't done too badly over the years imo the top lads like Ablett, JJB, Singleton,Ward have broken through and stayed in the team and other have had to move on to get game time.

Hopefully the next couple of Batches of 16-19's are of good quality because i do think the opportunities will increase next few years.

I reckon when everyone is fit and available we are likely to have six Aussies in our squad. I personally think only two are of top quality. For me Leeds has always been about quality English players with a couple of top quality overseas players. For all the talk that there aren't outstanding overseas players coming we've done pretty well with Moon and Cuthbo.

The issue is that there's a lot of average players coming over, who aren't really offering anything different or outstanding. Which in my opinion is why we should look to the NRL, not for average work horse forwards.

In terms of blocking kids from first team spots I don't think it's happening loads, but if I was Singo, I'd be annoyed Galloway walked straight into a starting shirt after last year, and I don't understand why despite clearly not being wanted, Achurch got a look in before Baldwinson this year.

there's no vendetta what so ever between me n sal,he makes lots of very good points in debates but is prone to the odd knee jerk when things don't go well.

go ahead and ask him if he said it
although if he hadn't have said it then i reckon that he would have taken me to task over it

I think the talent is there we just don't seem to be able to develop it - Baldwinson is a another who was a superb junior but will be lost due to the club's inability to make the most of his talents it is such a shame. Hopefully Cameron Smith will fulfil his potential

I did say it - i was wrong it happens, no ever gets everything right - I thought last season would a year too far and look what happened

In terms of opportunities, you've overlooked a crucial and pertinent issue with the current structure.

There is no reserve grade in operation SL. There is no natural pathway to progress as a player.

Currently, if a player isn't ready by 19 years of age who is able to switch seamlessly and command a SL squad number, then he's finished. Farmed off, cut loose, handshake and goodbye. Best case scenario? Perhaps a couple of seasons at Fev, Batley, Hunslet prior to becoming totally disillusioned and lost to the game entirely.

Here's an interesting take on the issue in the link below.

[url=http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/14349105.BULL_PEN___Current_reserve_structure_is_a_killing_field_for_aspiring_rugby_league_stars______Bastian/[uThere is absolutely no chance of the game producing a Jamie Peacock these days.[/u[/url

Sorry but the line on top talent isn't available any more, if referring to youngsters, is absolute rubbish. Some real top quality young talent around.

Leeds right now have some great under 16's. Last year we brought into the 19's some real quality. The coaching ability throughout the club is poor, and absolutely nothing on what it was 10-15 years ago, which is a shame. I fear on the development of these good youngsters we have, I voiced the same early last year. We do not develop quality the way we did, you simply can't without the right coaching and opportunities. In the 18's now we still mess around with players who are simply there to make up numbers, and all they do us restrict on the freedom of players who can go a long way,

Your last point is very true, but again Is something I have always voiced, without competition those in the shirt do not go forward also, and until you test out the next in line you don't know.

Said on another thread Brian mc deserves longer, if they went for anyone as another asst coach to add more footballing play, Brett hodgson would be my pick. IMHO he is brains behind Widnes style of play.

An interesting point and a good read. Because of how things are set up there is a real sink or swim mentality when young players hit a certain age.

Right now I think reserve clubs could be the correct way to go, but when Dual reg was first announced I thought it was the correct decision, but I thought it was going to work how NRL teams work their feeder teams in the NSW/QLD cup, with it allowing a clear pathway for players to step up and down and a sharing of coaching resources and philosophies. (I think Leeds did this to an extent and that's why we saw more success than others). Unfortunately like a lot of Super League innovations we did it with half an effort and quickly wanted to bin it when it didn't work.

In terms of player development I also think moving away from Licencing. Teams all across the league are less and less willing to blood and stick with young players (Catalan being an example) and teams have resorted to flying players half way round the world to fill a whole, Leeds, Saints and KR have all done this recently.

We dont have the players to have the structure we have now and a reserves side, there simply not the number of a requisite standard.

When we cut from 14 to 12 it should have increased the intensity with the best of the two relegated clubs shared out between the others and an increase in standard at the bottom however that didnt happen because money was given to the two relegated sides and others in the championship, so instead of concentrating 14 clubs talent in 12 sides, we stretched 14 clubs talent over 16/17/18 clubs.

We would probably need to add another 120-150 players for a reserves side. Which means one of two things are likely to happen, Either:

the best of the youngsters who are currently dropping down to the championship stay at SL clubs and play in the reserves league, diminishing the quality of the championship and leaving it even further adrift of SL,

or

these players continue to move to the upper championship sides and the reserves league is full of players not good enough for the championship and it is of such poor quality that it is unsuitable for developing players.

I recall watching both George and Tom Burgess playing for the Rhinos at junior level many years ago

I was informed at the time that they were both released from the Rhinos that it was in fact John Bastian that made the call and that he thought that both George and Tom Burgess wouldn't make the grade as Super League players and that they shouldn't be retained (whilst he was at the Rhinos and in charge of youth development in some capacity)
funny how his article has both in the pic and also how wrong he was

i fully agree with you.I was going to add that its difficult to hold on to players after 19 these days particularly the forwards who mature at a later age anyway.Singleton only just started coming good and ready at 23.Baldwinson wont be there for a while yet is too old for 19s or simply out grown those age groups but not ready for SL.Too many you have to make a decision on too early really but unfortunately i dont see a return to reserve grades any time soon.

Just to put this back on topic. I hear Hetherington has begun initial discussions with a coach, someone not mentioned on here, but a top coach. I believe it is just to have his deck stacked sort of speak, and McDermott is not for the chop at this stage.

Can you give any clues? The 2 most successful unemployed guys are probably Brian Noble and Geoff Toovey.

I was referring to top played from overseas

This all went to pot when they employed Barrie McDermott as head of youth development - one of GH's few worst decisions along with the appointment of Lance which was done solely to save money.

Actually it went even worse when they got rid of Barrie McDermott, although I agree with you on the appointment also. But since then they appointed Brian McDermott in total charge of the football side, rather than having the youth seperately, and he has is own yes men to just do as he says. The youth side needs to be under seperate control.

Indeed. It shows the importance of not making a call on players when they are too young doesn’t it? You can make some real howlers.

I speak to John Bastian regularly as I’m involved with BullBuilder who raise money for our U16s and U19s. He recalls that decision to cut the twins at Leeds as his worst one!

Has he actually said that in hindsight though? I recall that they wanted to kepp George and knew he would make the grade, but did not want to retain Tom. Both decided they came has a pair and therefore went elsewhere. At the time most would have released Tom, and to be fair without going to the NRL he would be nothing more than Championship now.

His actual words were "I got that decision wrong, I didn't think they'd make it at the time."

That's my take on things as well. Rugby is a late developing sport, there are great kids who turn into great adults, there are great kids who are only great because they developed earlier than everyone else and who then fall away, and there are kids who don't look much until relatively late. William mentions Peacock, but I seem to remember nobody wanted Syd Hynes as a youngster and he had to beg for trials.
I have always thought that we don't look hard enough at the lower levels below superleague. A player almost has to be superman in the Championship to attract any attention.
The other issue with not having A teams is that we are simply not able to develop half backs anymore in any great quantity or quality. Takes time to develop the game management skills to move big forwards around the pitch and get used to the pace of adult rugby, halves have no virtually no chance to do that unless they are first teamers by 19.

I was speaking to one of the Leeds and Huddersfield coaches tonight, and they both came out with something not thought of. They were talking about the league and said it was no coincidence the teams doing well so far, are the ones who have embraced the reserves competion. Both felt their clubs should have done the same. Has they actually been many reserve games?

Quote ="Gotcha"I was speaking to one of the Leeds and Huddersfield coaches tonight, and they both came out with something not thought of. They were talking about the league and said it was no coincidence the teams doing well so far, are the ones who have embraced the reserves competion. Both felt their clubs should have done the same. Has they actually been many reserve games?'" Yep. Check www.rugby-league.com/match_centre and search for Academy games.

Quote ="Gotcha"I was speaking to one of the Leeds and Huddersfield coaches tonight, and they both came out with something not thought of. They were talking about the league and said it was no coincidence the teams doing well so far, are the ones who have embraced the reserves competion. Both felt their clubs should have done the same. Has they actually been many reserve games?'" Yep. Check www.rugby-league.com/match_centre and search for Academy games.

Wallace Arnold

Tony Smith Jnr, David Plange?