He clearly is - hence he's prone to hooking them left.

Interestingly, when you watch him kick off, his style is so much different to taking a conversion because he kicks through the ball, not at it. He also stands the ball up on the tee differently. I guess there's no pressure when kicking off so his mind set is going to be a little different - and wow, can he wallop it.

As has been mentioned already on here, he's got potential, but it's going to take time and lots and lots and LOTS of practice before he gets it right. Nobody knows his attitude towards these things but I don't know if he's ever going to be dedicated enough to become a master at it (as we know Sinfield was with his kicking).

Point taken but as I'm sure you wouldn't want to mis-lead anyone his Wigan figure above was 2 conversions from 5 attempts - while also landing a 2nd half penalty so 3 from 6 on the night.

Hardaker for Leeds was 1 from 1 in 2012, 15 from 25 (60%) in 2013, 14 from 24 (58%) in 2014 and 9 from 13 (69%) in 2015. Sutcliffe 8 from 14 (57%) in 2014 (including the match winner V Les Catalans from a similar position - albeit opposite end) and 25 from 41 (61%) last year.

Neither option has shown the required consistency to bring confidence thus far, IMO.

Sutcliffe's sequence last season being a case in point:
Y=#FF0000XY=#FF0000XY=#FF0000XY=#FF0000XYY=#FF0000XYY=#FF0000XYY=#FF0000XYYYY=#FF0000XYYY=#FF0000XY=#FF0000XY=#FF0000XXY=#FF0000XYY=#FF0000XY=#FF0000XYY=#FF0000X

Didn't often miss two in a row but the problem was he didn't often kick two in a row either which may be alright for a deputy but is way short of a 1st choice ratio.

For the Wolves goal-kicking has been an issue Gidley may well be the answer.

I just wonder if Zak had kicked the last penalty would he be getting this much stick on here and on various social media platforms?!

Anyone would think Kev didn't miss kicks during games.

We all knew once Kev decided to leave/retire etc this would be the issue for what ever reason the club didn't feel the need to go out and buy a specialised goal kicker and they've stuck and backed one of our own.

The last thing Zak needs is everyone getting on his back after RD1!

Practice...Practice...Practice...that's what's needed.
If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out but the way some people are carrying on you'd think Zak had missed the kick to win the GF.
Give him a break, eh lads?!

People aren't getting on his back just suggesting ways that may help him to improve.
We all want him to do well.

Hardaker doesn't seem to hava a set routine, just steps up and whacks it. The ony way a kicker can consistently get 85%+ and get those high pressure game defining kicks is by having a set routine that they can follow, which allows them to phase out everything around them and focus everything on the technique.

Kicking isn't an afterthought, it's the different between winning trophies and not even making the final. It's an often underrated important aspect that you don't notice until you lose the services of an elite kicker.

A lot of games will be incredibly tight this season and good kicking will make the difference between winning and losing a few of those, and those points could be the difference between finishing 2nd and 5th. It can also change the complexion of games at crucial times, if leeds go 12-6 instead of 10-6, they then get down warrington's end (like they did when they had the chance of a 3rd try) and slot a drop goal over. 2 try cushion, likely game over.

The above is not criticism it is just stating reality. Hardaker is just starting out and last night will serve as a good learning point for him. It will also test his attitude. If he truly wants to be top kicker then it will drive him on to practice harder, never wanting to experience missing a kick like that again. Sometimes you need a bad experience to provide that extra drive. No one ever got good at anything without alot of practice prctice practice.

"Sanctimonious crew" (you know who you are) ...please note it's called constructive criticism and opinions based on what we saw; nothing more. You don't need to rush in and defend your precious idols.

Spot on. A test of Hardakers mentality.

. If only it was so simple. Surely he's been on the blower to your "kicking guru" Mr Alred who can turn him into Sinfield MK2 with simple psychological sessions and hours of practice. I am thinking of doing the same and winning millions of pounds at the World Darts by hours of practice at the same repetitive arm action. Hardaker will never be a top kicker, I hate to say it, but there we go.

We don't truly know what level he is currently at because he hasn't kicked week in week out for an extended period, with all the different types of kicks and game situations for us to get a kick % and fairly judge him. To say he will never be a top kicker is foolish at this stage. If after half the season he's sitting in the late 70's percentage wise, then it's possible he can bring that into the mid 80's over time which would make him a very good kicker.

we all knew this thread was coming once Sinfield retired, thought we may have gone a few games before it happened but here we go.

we were so blessed for the last 15 years having such a high level kicker, and one who you just knew would get the pressure kicks ala the one missed last night at the end. I'm not sure if Hardaker is the answer but he needs time to improve and get experience which you only get kicking on game day.like flex says, if his percentages are in the 70s mid season that will show he has the scope to improve over time and work at getting it to the top level. Looking around at other sides i don't think there are that many great kickers in SL right now.Pat Richards is probably head and shoulders above the rest but nobody else stands out

I would say it's foolish to think that after months, hours and hours of practice , that a naturally gifted kicker could only muster the attempt that Zak made last night with 3 minutes to go. As Zak said himself, "Aww, that's fu**in s**t". If anyone wants a bet that Zak Will be our regular kicker for the next few years then give me a figure and let's get some dough on.

Hell of a lot of short memories or many who don't know just how poor Sinfield was when he first took over the kicking duties missing many as easy and in some games easier than the 2 Zak missed last night.
It took Kev 12/18mths to get as consistent as we all know him to be and just like Sutty last year the knives are out already for Zak after 3 attempts in a proper game!!
It wont happen for anyone with 1 pre-season and a cv as a P/T goal kicker under there belt i said last year Sutty was a GK for the Acadamy but its very different at 1st team level but no he was deemed not good enough now Zak is getting the same.
Fwiw Lilley is also a very good GK just as Sutty was at u19 level but lets not forget at the moment he's finding his feet whilst also getting played out of position.
Whoever kicks will miss at some point it happens but declaring them not good enough after 3 yes 3 real attempts have a word FFS!

Spot on!

How else do you think people get better at something if it's not either psychological/mental or physical practice?
If they want Hardaker to be the goal kicker for the future (or whoever is going to be) then it might be a good idea to get someone like Alred in, they did for Sinfield.

I don't know why you'd think a test of mentality to be simple, mentality can be improved/developed even entirely changed in the right environment. Mentality is the difference between the good and the great players.

While I agree practice and time are only going to improve Hardaker's success rate, he looked a long long way from being a SL standard kicker.
Sinfield may well have improved over the years but I don't remember his technique been as poor as Hardaker's as a starting point.
I would let him carry on for now if he feels that he can master it, but if things show no signs of improvement after a few weeks then it may be time to look at other options.

You can assess improvement during the week. No point letting Zak arrive on match day and asking him to kick if during training he hasn't progressed. We have already seen what we will get with zero improvement. If a better kicker is on the pitch then it goes to him. Lilley is better.

I always though burrow was quite a good kicker. I guess the same applies as it does to lilley in that he may not be on the field all the time. But then I don't see the problem in passing over the duties when he comes on. May take a bit of pressure off Hardaker, whilst still giving him opportunity to practise kicking first team until eventually taking over completely or, giving it to Lilly when he plays more regularly. Who to me seems very natural kicker, level headed and full of confidence.

Quote ="Joshheff90"I always though burrow was quite a good kicker. I guess the same applies as it does to lilley in that he may not be on the field all the time. But then I don't see the problem in passing over the duties when he comes on. May take a bit of pressure off Hardaker, whilst still giving him opportunity to practise kicking first team until eventually taking over completely or, giving it to Lilly when he plays more regularly. Who to me seems very natural kicker, level headed and full of confidence.'" Agree with all of this posting.php?mode=quote&f=17&p=18282852#

Quote ="Joshheff90"I always though burrow was quite a good kicker. I guess the same applies as it does to lilley in that he may not be on the field all the time. But then I don't see the problem in passing over the duties when he comes on. May take a bit of pressure off Hardaker, whilst still giving him opportunity to practise kicking first team until eventually taking over completely or, giving it to Lilly when he plays more regularly. Who to me seems very natural kicker, level headed and full of confidence.'" Agree with all of this posting.php?mode=quote&f=17&p=18282852#

Just as a matter of interest (and I collect the figures so why not post them) here is a complete list of Leeds kickers used over the period 2004 to (and including) Friday night's game:

Name ….. Attempts ….. Kicked ….. Success %
Kevin Sinfield ….. 1975 ….. 1597 ….. 80.86
Rob Burrow ….. 173 ….. 127 ….. 73.41
Zak Hardaker ….. 66 ….. 40 ….. 60.61
Liam Sutcliffe ….. 55 ….. 33 ….. 60.00
Lee Smith ….. 44 ….. 34 ….. 77.27
David Furner ….. 18 ….. 11 ….. 61.11
Ashley Gibson ….. 12 ….. 9 ….. 75.00
Liam Botham ….. 6 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Jordan Tansey ….. 5 ….. 3 ….. 60.00
Danny McGuire ….. 3 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Matt Adamson ….. 1 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Barrie McDermott ….. 1 ….. 0 ….. 0.00
Gareth Ellis ….. 1 ….. 1 ….. 100.00
Jordan Lilley ….. 1 ….. 1 ….. 100.00
….. ….. ….. ….. ….. ….. …..
….. ….. ….. ….. ….. ….. …..
Total ….. 2361 ….. 1856 ….. 78.61

If Lilley starts he kicks and if he doesn't then Zak kicks and we hope he improves. But it should be said a club of Leeds stature should be able to obtain a 75-80% ratio kicker

On that percentage it's a no-brainer. Lilley must be the kicker

(Sinfield eat your heart out)

From where? I suspect relatively few RL kickers exceed 75% and of those that do, how many would you want to see displaying their non-kicking game in a Leeds shirt?

what stats don't tell you is how many were made in pressure situations when the game is tight, even from mid range like the one Hardaker had the other night.Its ok banging 7/8 over in a 40 point romp but the long term goal had to be to find someone capable in the big situations.Not going to be easy for any of those mentioned and the only way they will get there is time spent practising, and being backed by the club simple as that really.

Agreed that basic kicking stats would require a deeper analysis but they still mirror my perception of the potential candidates for the Headingley job. Burrow has the best % and has kicked at least one memorable game saving conversion at home V Bradford.

A couple or three ironies on the list, IIRC. 1 - Burrow would have set a Challenge Cup semi-final record had McDermott not been given the easy conversion attempt - which he gloriously missed. 2 - McGuire has never successfully kicked a conversion for Leeds (including a gimme in the 70-0 Wigan game) despite kicking a goal for the full GB Test side. 3 - Botham never kicked a goal for Leeds but once kicked a goal as a Leeds player which cost his parent club a competition point in a draw at Brentford.

All from fading memories so prepared for corrections and/or further embellishment.