IMO Delaney was one of the three best Leeds players on the day, the other two being Leuluai and Sinfield.

I really cannot see the problem with Delaney AT centre. If anything this sort of bile should be directed at Senior who has under-performed all season for Leeds.

IMO Delaney is at least as good as if not better than previously successful right centres at Leeds in recent seasons, including Chris McKenna, Chev Walker and Clinton Toopi. All were direct players offering comparatively little flair on attack, and whilst eventually all ended up playing in the back row at some point, only McKenna played there with any regularity to make room for Chev at centre. Before Delaney is put into the back row we must consider the alternatives - neither Smith or Ablett is goood enough there.

I think pointing the finger at Delaney is akin to the criticism that Donald took during his 1st year.
I think he has been up and down performance wise but so has the team.
The injury situation has meant players like Senior ,Kylie and JP have been unable to be rotated and the poor start and us playing "catch up" has also meant Bluey getting desperate and picking players who are'nt fit rather than depending on the youngsters.
I think we need freshening up and hopefully we'll get a couple of recruits in and the likes of Watkins ,Bjb and Ambler will get gametime and prove their worth.
I don't think it's the doom and gloom some are predicting although we do need structural changes to our game-play especially defence and discipline.
A big test now for Bluey and GH to regroup and go again with fresh players and a different approach game-play wise and also we all know that next year we will HAVE to release some of the older guys imo so the transition can be made smoother by what we do now re-signings and squad promotion.

Watkins?

Instead of Senior, Please. Let's just give the lad the spot and let him learn from any mistakes. That is what transistion is all about.

He definately should be given a chance and a run of games there maybe give Senior a stint at SR on that side to help him along for some games.

Why should we give Senior any role? Why not Pitts, Manning (if returns), Clarkson and Stewart for the second row?

This is the problem with Sentimality, we give a position to someone for the sake of it. Make Senior earn his spot, rather than what we have had this year.

Bluey has already said they are always looking about for players but they keep that very private. I strongly suspect GH and Bluey have been scouring about for a couple of months now. Just because there is nothing in the Media doesn't mean there aint anything in the pipeline....

Does Bluey now regret letting Tansey go? Tansey can do a good job at stand off. He has his flaws but so does every utility back.

All in all some serious thoughts need to be processed during the next week or so and im very confident GH and Bluey have everything covered.

I don't think now that he's signed on for next year that Bluey will just discard him mate and i think we might aswell make use of him and the idea of him playing SR with Watkins at LC would help Watkins settle into the role easier.
It's only an idea and i would'nt just hand it to him and say that's your spot now just that would be where i would look to use him.

Out of interest did anyone see the highlights of the Conference GF yesterday? Didn't Senior coach that Underbank side? does he still?

Just wondering because there was a left centre in that side, who was a distinct similar look to Senior. And it appeared he had been coached straight out of the Senior manual, resulting in a late late try for Warrington to win the game. You know just leaving things defensivly for his team mates to deal with.

Wonder if he will also become Super Leagues Greatest Ever Centre?

I doubt he would be playing Conference if he was. I said he had a distinct similarity, which would suggest his time has gone.

Were there many needless penalties given away in that game?

I'm just wondering what inpsired Buderus.

Gotcha, I'm with you 100% on making any player earn their spot.

The problem may be that the standard at which reserve grade is played may simply not be high enough. Perhaps a series of good performances at that level is not enough to persuade McClennan that a player should be promoted.

I live too far way to take in reserve team football so would be interested to hear from those who do re their opinions on this theory.

He wasn't involved when they came down to play us. I didnt see the final but know exactly who you mean. Good strong player who was certainly their go-to man

I think the centre problems are that we lack something in both. delaney is not a big threat going forward, and Senior is struggling in defence. Delaney coupled with Senior of a few years ago wouldn't be an issue, but I think as both our centres are struggling its more apparent.

I think we need to see what Delaney does for us next year.

People cite Wire's centres as the best, but King took 2 years to show anything like decent form, and still isn't guarunteed a centre berth, and being unable to pass to his winger has not done Ryan Atkins much harm.

That's a fair point.

Hard one to judge.

This year he has supplied his winger with alot of final ball. Plenty of assists have come from him this year.

Didn't he go last year without one assist?

So it's probably half improvement and half playing for a better side which will give him quality ball and the volume of it as well.

But he has deffo took a huge step forward in feeding his winger, like all good centres should do.

Gotcha - a look at what the left wingers for Leeds this season have contributed in terms of tries compared to the right should give you an idea of what Senior adds that Delaney doesn't, even if it's only being enough of a threat to act as a decoy.

Hate to say I told you so about Delaney, but I did. He's a big unit in the Chris McKenna mould with limited attacking threat. If anyone should be playing in the pack it's him rather than Senior.

The OP goes a little over the top in his assessment, but fundamentally he's right. This Leeds squad is getting to the end of its shelf life in a number of positions and plans need to be made to rectify that situation. The mass re-signing in the middle of the season smacked of a "vote of confidence" similar to that given by football chairmen to their managers rather than any considered piece of recruitment policy. I

The best out of contract players in SL have already been snapped up for 2011, so any recruitment is going to have to come from overseas where a similar position already exists. Given Leeds are likely to start 2011 with their two best players off the field for a length of time I would suggest it's time to get used to disappointment like that of Saturday - if only for the next 12 months at least.

But what is conveniently ignored there is the amount of tries that Senior has cost us throughout the year, and there has been many.

And just to clarify I am not suggesting above that Delaney is the answer, I made that clear. But just that Senior is a weaker link to the side.



That's spot on. But I don't get why people are saying this now after a defeat and what has been a disastrous season. This was clear at the start of the year, and was clear even had they won both trophies this year.

Seems a lot of us are of the same opinion that Delaney would go better in the second row .... As would Senior, covering that position for differing reasons... Not least his positional defence liabilities at centre.
Good as he is on attack we do need to blood his pretender asap.

I too would like to see Watkins given the starting left centre position next season.... But who would we put in the starting right centre position ? Is Jones-Bishop too radical an idea ?
Smith IMO should be given the opportunity to start at FB with Webb moving to SO to cover the lengthy expected absence of McGuire. ( We can always fall back on the Sinfield to SO option if it doesn't work out over a longish period ).That of course would only leave us with Hall to cover one of the wing spots.
Serious question: is Chisholm not up to covering the other wing spot ? Don't know enough about him. He appears more than quick enough. Defence ?
Burrow by default at least seems secure of his position.

Don't forget most of us are expecting 2011 to be a year of transition...and thus experimenting.....to hopefully set us up better for 2012. I will happily accept another barren trophy-less year if we can set ourselves up for the following year.

I don't think we should look at other clubs' centres deficiencies to continue accepting mediocrity. We should surely set our own standards. Besides Atkins and King have always had the asset of pace if nothing else. At least one of our incumbent centres doesn't even have that.

We need freshening up, there's no denying that. The loss of Eastwood is a big blow (has his transfer to Bulldogs been confirmed yet?) he'd started to show at the back end of this season the reason we'd brought him in.. he gives us very good go forward, had we a fully fit Bailey and Peacock along side him we'd have been at Old Trafford imo. We [umust[/u replace him with a top drawer prop/2nd rower imo, preferably 2 forwards will be brought in.

I think we're ok in the backs for next year at least, Watkins needs some good game time next season if he is to start fulfilling his potential, then we've also BJB coming back.. I know we've lost Donald but we've got Smith who will benefit from a good pre season.. there maybe some changes for 2012 season though in the back line (Senior retiring etc, possibly Webb returning home).

After only playing his 1st season with us i really think Delaney needs to be given the chance to settle properly in his RC place with a regular wing man and SR to build up some continuity.
I do think mate re-Bjb he should start at FB and Webb to SO to start with not least because it will give Bjb a head-start in the role he's tipped to take over in 2012 which leaves Smithy on the wing.
I also think keeping Sinfield at 13 will take the "creative" pressure of him and allow him to play his natural ball handling 13 role he has done so well for us over the years.
As for Chisolm the little i've seen of him he is a flyer and very athletic but his defensive positioning and tackling technique need more work imo but i think he would be worth a punt if he handles the step up to u20's.
There are obvious frailties but i'm sure they'll be sorted and the youngsters on the rung below will be given every chance to step up.

I always admire your optimism.....hope YOU're right. Still think would rather have Smith at FB with the pacier Jones-Bishop on the right wing. Watkins and Hall on the left.

That's another option i'm sure that will be looked at but i think Bjb is the incumbant FB so imo would make more senes to play him there and keep Smithy on the wing.
Time will tell i suppose.
After what we've witnessed mate i think the club and squad at the very least deserve some optimism.

I cant comment on any of the younger players as i havnt followed their progress, but I have heard big praise for Chisholm from various people, hopefully there are others capable of stepping up in the next 2 seasons.

I would be happy to see Watkins play in the centres regularly next season although I do agree that it takes several players a yr or so to bed in and hopefuly he will get second season syndrome in reverse.

I think most Leeds fans agree we need a new prop for next season because I always believe as a general rule forwards win you matches and backs decide by how much. Go forward will be even more crucial next year without Mcguire for the first 2months.

With Mcguire in the team I dont see what Rob Burrow offers us now as he has lost the acceleration and speed he had 5yrs ago. To compliment Mcguire when he is fully fit we need a HB in the mould of Briers,Dobson and even Brough.

By Signing every player up for next season it will mean massive changes for 2012 and it will be a very difficult job for Mcdermott when he surely takes over from Bluey as Head Coach.

Whatever people say it is a transitional period for Leeds now, not just because we have an ageing team that has been hampered by injuries but there is now more competition than there has been for the last 3 yrs. There are now 5 teams capable of getting to the GF unlike just 2 of the last 3 yrs.

i think the important thing we need to keep in perspective is we did get to the CC final and within 40minutes of old trafford. That shows to me we are still one of the best teams in this league,

People seem to be thinking that our players will be year older and a year worse, but they will play fewer games, Mcguire and Peacock will get a full rest and pre-season which is something neither have had for years (i understand they are injured by the start of preseason next year their rehab will be focussed on building up to contact and the twisting/turning of the knee, they will still be able to do fitness work) It is just as likely that we see them both come back revatilised and even better next year than this.

We have lacked at times and come up short, but we need to be at our very very best to win the big games, and without Mcguire, Peacock, and at times Sinfield, Burrow and Webb it would have always taken an outstanding effort for us to do so. We play a game which is based on support running, we dont grind them out with five drives and a kick like Wigan we offload and take risks, with these players not playing together all that much, it was always going to take time for them to gel like they have for the past three years.

This run in we have had a half fit Ali, A 15min from Bailey, no burgess and no Peacock but have still done ok.

A fully fit Ali will be like a new player, we will have a fully fit bailey, Burgess returning and a rested Peacock up front, not to mention a year older and year wiser from Ambler, Clarkson and Pitts.

Next season we clearly need someone to replace Eastwood, a similar player in a similar mould. If we can do that I think we are strong in the pack.

for the centres, i have no real problem with either Delany or Senior, both as good as anything out there in SL really, maybe they are a bit similar but Watkins should get more game time next year and he is a real prospect, its good that both Delany and Senior can cover the 2nd row as it should open up slots for Watkins.

Our Wingers are among the best in the League IMO, Smith and Hall will do fine

Webb has been disappointing for a couple of years imo, i think he has lost his zip, a yard of acceleration and isnt the player he was. However his positioning is good, his reading of the play and chiming into the line is good, and his ability to play as a 2nd s-o from FB is 2nd to none in SL imo. but BJB also looks a prospect ready to step in over the next season, and make the position his own in 2012.

Mcguire, Burrow and Sinfield are all good players imo, I think Mcguire and Sinfield are very very very good in fact. there is no change needed there, would like to see Ward maybe get a couple of games in as cover for Mcguire, its early in the season so shouldnt damage us too much and it should help his development.

Im not sure we need massive surgery, whilst we do have players 30+ we do seem to have players getting ready to step up for those players. A fully rested, focussed and revitalised Leeds squad will be a major force next year.

As for the huge changes in 2012? who really will need to be replace that we dont already have someone to step up?