Who signed Kevin Sinfield and Adrian Morley?

Who gave the first wave of Academy products like Francis Cummins, Paul Cook and Marcus vass their debuts?

Laughton was the first coach since the seventies that viewed the reserves as a place to prepare players for the 1st team and not a completely separate team that played on Friday nights.

Laughton was appalled at the lack of scouting and youth development when he came to Leeds.

Whatever he did right or wrong we have a lot to thank him for, and Bell for carrying it on.

Your memory needs refreshing my friend.

His Leeds players loved him. That is reported fact.

His Leeeds players hated him. That is unsubstantiated rumour and conjecture.

He won trophies. That is a fact.

Agreed - he won trophies - it would be easy to say he won two trophies and gloss over everything else that happened?

To say the Leeds players loved him is also unsubstantiated rumour and conjecture. Nobody came out in 2007 and critisised the decision to let him go.

The fact that he was forced to take a job that wasn't his first choice of role and the fact that Leeds were happy for him to go should not be overlooked. By Smith's own admission a change was required.

As I said Smith is an enigma - England spactacularly under-performed in the WC how much of that was the players and how much of that was Smith's inability to get the best out of the players - possibly a combination of the two.

We have always had polarised opinions about Smith - his record stands scrutiny and if that is how you judge a coach on trophies won then he had two good years and two poor years.

That is the interesting thing about Smith did they win trophies because of or inspite of his input?

So 2005 was poor then Er????
We won the wcc for the 1st time and competed in both finals FFS what do class as a good year then??

Slow down and read the post correctly!!

What I said was if you judge how good a coach is by how many trophies he has won - which is Gareth's premise fair point to him - then 2005 and 2006 would be seen as failure?

We lost the 2005 CC final in part through appalling team selection by Smith

If you do David, then please explain to me how Graham Murray is still loved by leeds fans, and most on here were upset at the thought and rumours of him coaching hull, yet he only won one trophy and bombed in the play-offs in 1999

No it isn't David. Its' based upon quotes players made at the end of the 2007 season and directly after the GF. Quotes directly attributable to the players, inlcuding Danny McGuire.

Now, we can theorise about why they might have said it but that's conjecture and supposition.

What's clear is they said it.

To be fair David was saying that is how I judge a good coach, and I do.

I liked Murray but, frankly, as a Leeds coach he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Smith.

Its' a sad indictment of our fanbase that Murray probably remains more popular than Smith to this day.

No it isn't. Murray was more likeable than Smith. Sorry if you don't want to hear that, but it's true.

Being popular isn't always just a matter of Silverwear.

Not all players said this though!!

Yes it is (a sad indictment).

None of us know Murray or Smith personally. We shouldn't form our opinions on their public personality. We should form them on their results.

So you have ably demonstrated my point. I "liked" Smith much more because he delivered what i had craved for so long. Most of our fan base "liked" Murray because he said the right things and smiled at the right time.

A sad indictment of an ill informed fan base many of whom are reared upon, and accept mediocrity.

Which players made public comments that they didn't like Smith and do you have any quotes?

Yeah. They said, "I didn't like Tony Smith."

I aint putting their names on here though.

'Mediocrity'? Won us our first major trophy in 21 years and got us pretty damned close to winning the first Grand final. Not mediocre in my book.

On results, I think he stand comparison with most coaches. On charisma, he beats most.

he stands comparison with most Leeds coaches, yes. But thin about what preceded him.

Like I said, its' a sad indictment that most of our fans judge a coach on their [iperceived[/i charisma. I don't.

'Perceived'? People found him charismatic. Charisma is all a matter of perception. You seem to be suggesting they were wrong to do so.

And his two years were a tremendous success. That may also be why some people like him.

What appaling team selection was that David?

FWIW I agree he made an error but I suspect we have differing views on what error that was.

I didn't go to Leeds at exactly the same time as T-Boy. He brought me in about 2 weeks later. I was brought in for team moral purposes.

I know of two who say he is a c***.

Graham Murray PL 65 ..... Won 48 Drawn 1 Lost 16 ..... Pts For 1852 Pts Agst 1122 ..... (28 - 17) ... 75%

Tony Smith PL 134 ..... Won 98 Drawn 3 Lost 33 ..... Pts For 4561 Pts Agst 2338 .. (34 - 17) ..... 74%

Brian McClennan PL 40 ..... Won 31 Drawn 0 Lost 9 ..... Pts For 1144 Pts Agst 631 ... (29 - 16) ..... 78%

Do you own/work for OptaIndex whatever it's called?

I think you're ace me.

I am not a number I am a free man.

You're not too bad yourself.

Murray , delivered the 1st major trophy in 20 years (not counting john player or yorkshire cups )

Smith won the 1st championship in even longer.

basing popularity or whether someone should be more popular on the strength of their medals is a very thin premise.

On that basis are jamie mathiou & andy hay better than all the players preceding who didn't win medals?

Murray & McClennan deal with winning & losing in different ways to smith in the public eye.

Powell had little popularity when in charge but was perhaps one 2 pointer in a challenge cup final away from still being in charge...

I like your name. It's my favourite sound.

Gedouttahere. Daaaaaymn jive turkey!