I have to disagree with this, if I am the only person who thinks this then so be it.
I have been one of the few that have harped on about giving the young ones a chance and I am glad this has finally happened. However, I must admit I haven’t been to see Sutcliffe in many U19 games this season, but I have heard on twitter and forums like this how he is the next big thing and how terrific he is as a player. Errr HHmmmm.
I have seen him play in the last 3 or so games and he may be a good second rower eventually, but as a Stand Off – No. Last night he threw the ball left, then he threw the ball right. There was no kicking game at all and no ‘show and go’ or dancing in front of the defensive line. He didn’t ask any questions of the opposition at all.
Yes he scored a reasonable try from 5 yards but that doesn’t make him a star. I expected to see much more from a kid who is so highly rated by others. Was he told not to kick or try anything that might make him look good? For me we had an extra 2nd rower but lost a half back with him playing.
I am sure he is a nice lad and I don’t want to sound as though this is a Vickery type thread – but come on. I know many a player who Leeds have let go who are playing in the Championship who offered much more than I have seen here. Even Ollie Olds who went to Aus offered so much more. Even that kid is it Ben Johnston at Cas (D/R) with York is way above and beyond what I have seen so far.
For a big six footer like he is mould him into a JJB or a 13, but deffo not a 6,7 or 9.
IMO of course.

I think wherever you go you get that though TT. I'd say the majority of every fan base don't actually have a clue.

I had one girl next to me yesterday complaining that Peacock "doesn't do much anymore". I found myself shaking my head and laughing.

Every week I have to put up with idiots in the Southstand. Even when on the odd occasion I turn round and explain the rule to them they still disagree because they're too stupid to know better.

Like the ones showed many times by much senior pro's over the last 6 games or the ones showed by Kirke and Clarkson last night???
Like i said in an earlier post our communication and constant swopping of positions within the defensive line are as big a problem than rookie errors.

I think you have answered your own question in your last big paragraph.

I don't think he was fantastic last night, but I do think he looked very good and promising. I don't see him as a long term stand off, but more as at the back of the srcum.

However, your point on last night, I honestly think the team and him were told instructions before hand and stuck to it. I couldn't understand why he wasn't kicking the field penalties or the drop out. But it must have been instructed that way. I moaned about Burrow always looking the other way from his half back partner and seemed reluctant to pass to him. On reflection after, I realised that it must have been an instruction.

Therefore it is wrong to blame the player for not been allowed the platform to display his talents. Plus his try was a lot better than a "reasonable try from 5 yeards".

Why? We still wouldn't have been able to come anywhere near the contract a couple of NRL clubs have offered him.

We wouldn't have had to compete is what I said.

hahaha we that was a concise well thought out arguement. "you sound like the muppet behind me..."
i was trying to get across the malice involved it both cases. the shoulder barge attempt showed more malice than the lift of the legs by moon. had it connected there was a very real chance of injury. (please re-read the word chance before you cum all over the key board in your attempts at mocking me) there was no chance of an injury in the moon case, as he did lift the legs and then put them down, with no injury to the player. penaly, yes. 1 match ban? no.

The best way the RFL can get rid of the shoulder barge is to penalise it heavily. they banned it after 4 weeks of the SL season started as it was so terribly dangerous to the players (sarcasm there guys) yet when you have blatant instances of it they mearly shrug and give away penalties. luiluia has zero incentive to learn a new teqnique as they are not punishing his old one, yet i bet hardacker was a little weary of it when he was being challenged. so who has the advantage?

as for the McShane no try. i thought most hookers did them when they were a few meters out. nevermind, guess we wont be seeing one of them scored any more.

Anti leeds bias? i asked some questions. cetain posted jumped on them like a tramp on hot food. guess your a relative of oone of our many glorious officials.....

W55ARE-re-Sutcliffe there were clear instructions for Mcshane and Burrow to run the kicking game last night it was that blatant.
As for his talents as a 6 his passing was spot on he left Hock clutching fresh air for Burrows 2nd try which btw was a 5th tackle play and had his try been scored by Tomkins ,Briers ,Rathcford etc etc there'd have been a tugfest.
I HAVE seen most of his games and he can and will prove to be more than capable at 6 and the link up with him and Ward (at 13) will see us in safe hands for years.

Thought Sutcliffe had a good game last night, but he wasn't really playing at stand-off, more as a loose-forward while the nominal 13 (Singleton) was playing as an extra prop.

Effectively we had one half-back/pivot for most of the match (Burrow) except for a weird five minute period where McShane went off, Burrow went to hooker, and it appeared that JJB was playing scrum-half.

So the clamour has been for Burrow to step up and take some more responsibility now he's going to be first choice scrum half for the rest of the season.

Burrow does step up and take more responbility (pretty successfully in the most part) and now he's getting stick for not passing to Sutcliffe, allegedly on the instructions of the coach?

What's that saying? You can't educate pork?

You and Gotcha beat me to it, looked like McShane was told to drill the ball deep into touch to try and keep widnes down their own end whilst Burrow did a few attacking cross field kicks, Sutcliffe made sure he was never in a position to kick when it came to the last play.

Maybe the coach didn't want the extra pressure of kicking to be put on Sutcliffes shoulders

Cant say I noticed Burrow not passing to Sutcliffe, he did run up a blind alley a few times but he's always done that.

Andy, seriously grow up.

There is no critisism of Burrow from last night. There was a clear game plan which was not to put pressure on Sutcliffe simple as that. If you read post properly you will see that.

Does Sutcliffe have a decent kicking game?

My own thoughts:

The kids that came into the team did ok.

Sutcliffe showed some nice touches with ball in hand (Clarke trying to disguise Eamonn O'Carroll getting sidestepped out of his boots for the try as being down to his footwear was laughable). Stood up well to the physical challenge of Hock, albeit made some poor reads when faced with numbers coming at him.

Singleton did everything at 100mph as usual, but I'm struggling to remember anything either exceptional or dumb. Steady game. About what you would expect for someone who has been in the full time setup for two or three years now.

Baldwinson got on and did the job expected of him. Ran strong, defended well. Again, no major plusses but no big minuses either.

Minns did alright with limited game time after Moon came off.

Keinhorst had an absolute Jarvis. From standing around watching a loose ball for Mellor's length of the field try to his poor effort for Hanbury's he looked like he'd wandered in off the street. Missed a couple of chances second half to pick good lines off Achurch playing inside him and constantly walkabout in defence.

Many more performances like that, especially with Ablett poised to return, and he'll be back to Hunslet pronto.

Sibbs-In the U19's he is the dominant kicker with White at 7 more of a running HB and imo he's decent at it aswell.
He's also the goal kicker but as has been posted i think the plan last night was to keep as much pressure off him as poss and tbf i thought Burrow and Mcshane ran the kicking game well overall.

Sibbs any idea when waccoe will be back up?

As much as I would love to have disagreed with you - I think this sums it up well

For most of the season our defense has been oustanding and has looked well organised nad very well coached as you well know. Then we went off the boil with key players losing some timing and we also were hit by the injuries. These things happen in sport, the players know it and the coaches know it. In a sport where team spirit is essential what you don't do is panic and lay blame on players and coaches who are well seasoned and proven. They just have to work it through on the practice pitch and on the playing pitch until the form returns as it will with the class players.

We have some outstanding young players who will in time earn a regular place but what you saw last night was the clear risks that come when you blood a youngster. Singleton looks the business now with a good work rate and stamina. Sutcliffe looks to have the class but needs to work on his defence (which I am sure he will do) and though early days I like the look of Baldwinson. Keinhorst confirmed why the coach has been reluctant to play him and I have not seen enough of Minns.

Overall I am happy with the way these youngsters are developing but most are not quite ready and it will be interesting to see them up against a top SL side.

Fair enough, with his size he could easily be shaped into a Loose with a similar role as Sinfield then. He also seems a bit lighter on his feet than Kevin which is encouraging. The signs are looking good for mine, I think Mcdermott has done the right thing and shielded him a bit too as it's oh so easy to loose confidence at that age; speaking from experience on that too!

Not a clue mate! They were doing some maintenance last time I saw, hadn't been on for a few days though anyway.

Agreed, you either all shoot up or you take a slower solid line to meet the attack, sutcliffe caused issues for keinhorst and then BJB all game shooting up a number of times and once the sky biys piinted it out to was almost every single time that he rushed way beyond his inside and outside defender. Keinhorst missed a couple, more he come back to his position so the effort and actually tackling is there. Mis communication and a simply good read from Hanbury led to the full length try and he did turn Zak inside and out. Work to be done, but it looked liked some raw talent across the park just needed some direction and time spent playing with each other.

Switching Hall to the right I think would be a good move and steady the right edge, check the stats and that side had at least triple the traffice from Widnes and you have to expect Sutcliffe, keinhorst and returning BJB to come up with errors with that type of workload....

One more question Re Baldwinson - Some say he is heading to the NRL, anyone know more details?

If he is it ain't took em long to spot him.They must have a few scouts over here

An interesting game all round - lacking in quality but still worth watching. Burrow was my MOM I thought really stood up to be counted and handled the younger players admirably. JJB also had his best game in ages - another senior player who accepted responsibility and seemed to thrive on it.

The younger players didn't let anyone down - Baldwinson looked the real deal no wonder the NRL is calling. Singleton is a throw back, a prop who will run through a brick wall. Sutcliffe showed some neat footwork but is defence needs some work and Minns looked much comfortable in a more central role. Hopefully he will start on Sunday with Moon now suspended. Keinhorst looked very slow last night - it didn't help having Sutcliffe close by in the line but I am far from convinced he is of the requisite standard.

I agree with Gareth re McShane and his stamina, he reminds me of Andy Speak in that respect plenty of skill but question marks about his engine. Moon concerns me, he throws one decent pass in five no wonder Hall is looking out of sorts. Although one in five is better than none when Zac was his centre. Talking of which another strong performance he ran Burrow close for MOM. Good to see Jones-Bishop return.

On the negative Kirke was abject last night, Clarkson not much better and Achurch looks like adding to the list a poor overseas signing - sadly you get what you pay for.