As someone so proficient in numbers you need a re-count.

If Ali picks up Briers, Burrow picks up #22 how do Watkins and Hall account for Riley, Gleeson and Hicks on a "man on man" basis?

If you're right there's an extra man that should've been picked up by an inside sliding defender or maybe Lee Smith should have gotten across much, much quicker. Watch the video again, even Burrow (who had been tackling #22) arrives on the scene before Smith.

Was Riley in the line or backing up behind?

The sliding defence and the touchline should have coped there and perhaps would have had Watkins not broke ranks. That action made a preventable try inevitable.

There were others but fortunately Warrington failed to execute with the line at their mercy.

You tell me if he was in the line. You've reached a decision about the culpable single party. You've also concluded how the defence would've theoretically coped with Riley.

Surely you wouldn't jump to such conclusions without viewing the evidence?

I don't need to view it, that's your job today just as mine is dredging up stats for you.

Either way the touchline was Leeds' extra defender. Hold your position in the line, take your man and make them go around you to score, if they don't run out of space. How close was Hicks to stepping in touch? Six inches was it?

And I have had such fun alayzing this with you I've broken my mantra of only posting on my employer's time. Anyway, Riley was definitely in the line.

Hicks would've had acres of space had Watkins taken Riley and Hall taken Gleeson. The touchline wasn't the issue, it was the space inside him. The covering Smith (who would've had to pick up Hicks) was miles away.

You two need one of those monitors with the pens that draw little electronic circles on the screen. Paul Cullen would be able to explain it all for you..

Nothing more to add really. We've both stated our views and been civil about it.

Except perhaps to remember that back on page 10 earlier today where you said:



I still think it would have been interesting if it had been Chev Walker out there rather than Watkins.

ok, so if that try was watkins fault fair enough. He's cost us a try. But we are a good enough team to absorb some of these lapses. If they become regular then we would need to re-assess the situation.

Personally I feel that Watkins will have learnt more from Sundays match than he would have done in the senior acadamy.

Don't you dare make any concessions.

I've taken up DHM's suggesting and the telestrator and magic pen is on its' way from Isleworth.

Forget Cullen, I can talk boaloox with the best of them. I'll be hosting a live video link from the All You Can Eat Chinese Buffet at 12.30 tomorrow.

Tune in.

Was he available?

I think this will take longer than poeple are really expecting it too too be honest.

Quote ="rhinoms"Just thought i'd start a new eastwood thread with this update. www.leaguehq.com.au/news/warrior ... 83920.html'" Don't know how much you guys know now..but I am in Queensland at the moment and in today's 'The Australian' newspaper a report by Dan Koch states..."Greg Eastwood is likely to make a decision on his future within the next week, with [ithree[/i NRL clubs understood to be vying for his signature." Guess all hope now dissipated of him coming to Leeds.

Quote ="rhinoms"Just thought i'd start a new eastwood thread with this update. www.leaguehq.com.au/news/warrior ... 83920.html'" Don't know how much you guys know now..but I am in Queensland at the moment and in today's 'The Australian' newspaper a report by Dan Koch states..."Greg Eastwood is likely to make a decision on his future within the next week, with [ithree[/i NRL clubs understood to be vying for his signature." Guess all hope now dissipated of him coming to Leeds.

I hope we havent been paying him through all this.

Not making concessions, but more like lets just say that it was a mistake from watkins. Doesn't bother me. Over the course of the year I feel he will bring more influence to games at the right end. Like TVOC said, a GB international centre of ours made many defensive mistakes in his last few years at us. Lets not jump on the back of a youngster learning his way.

It will be a big blow to us if he doesn't come. He's at such a good age as well (23) with the best years ahead of him.

Making concessions isn't in our tool kits. *See mine and G1's constant friendly niggle over Lee Smith for further evidence. We can't both be right but we'll have a good try to bluster that we are.



Re : Watkins. As I've said before I don't have a problem with a 17 year old doing his level best in the 1st team. He has real potential. My problem is with the off season recruiting by Leeds that failed to solve a glaring problem at right centre.

All we have are stop gaps in Ablett (never a centre) Smith (untried and should be at full back or wing first) Watkins (too much to expect a 17 year old to perform week in week out at the required level even accepting the regular defensive mis-reads) and Gibson (had some potential but really is neither big enough or fast enough to command the spot.)

If Leeds have cap space (apparently so even if Eastwood were to belatedly arrive) and money in the bank then IMO they should use some of it sooner rather than later. Don't worry about contracts, players still change clubs when contracted, just ask Warrington, St Helens and Martin Gleeson.

Teams don't get any credit for finishing a gallant second while tying one hand behind their backs. Leeds have already failed to defend one trophy successfully and I don't want to see this season turn in to another 2005.

You are right that we have a large gap in Salary cap which we could use, and it looks like a deal for Solia fell through (though that is only going from info on here). So the club has identified the weakness, and attempted to fill it. However, these deals are not simple to put together, and a lot of investment will have gone into getting Solia, for it all to fall through. there may not have been time to get another player of sufficient quality over here, who we could afford, who wanted to come, and who had a clean history so that we could get him a visa. I have discounted Sl based centres, as there are only a couple who I would consider worthy of us, and better than what we have got. In the absence of said player, I think we will do alright. I guess I see there being more to the game than winning and losing. There is the overall competitiveness of SL vs NRL, and Engalnd vs Australia & NZ long term to think about. The only way this will improve is by developing youngsters and giving them game time, and allowing them to get better by playing against the best. I would rather the team came up short in a big game because of a mistake from a junior who had been put there than win it by just fielding a team made up of easy short term options. We do more than most as a club in promoting youth, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't do more.

You can stop panicking TVOC.

By all accounts he's 18 today.

You don't really think that was a consideration at the time now do you?


I like your holistic approach to the game and it's one I generally share but I'd still like to see Leeds use all the resources at their disposal to stuff the rest of the competition where the sun don't shine.

Not winning the Championship for 32 years prior to 2004, enduring Wigan winning everything for years and the rise of the Bulls has probably got to me.





I know I've just seen it and replied, I'm going for a lie down to re-think my strategy.

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I can't remember when the visa's started getting knocked back, or whether someone at leeds would have known situation like this were happening, but it must surely go into consideration when signing a player, that they have to get a visa, its just that the goal posts have moved.

[size=34icon_surprised.gifuit7hujYou're right though[/size

It would be nice. I just think that we sould caryy on down the route that got us here in the first place as much as is possible. the key is in achieving the correct balance though

That's the key.

Ideally I would like to see a team that was born and bred in Leeds, who have all come through the Academy, who will play for the honour and almost die for the club with a maximum of 3 exceptionally talented antipodeans that bring a bit of colour.

That said it's not the world we are living in just yet so I would like to see Leeds (in the meantime) put out a team that doesn't need to rely on a (just) 18 year old when the 32 year old is unavailable.

I agree, but how do you get to situation A, without going through situation B.

slightly off topic, but where would leeds be now if the signings of Carroll, Mullins, Clyde, Barnhill, Walker, Mears not turned out so badly, and given the current spine of the team a chance to shine?

If it was up to me, I would go for a Gilmour/Ellis type player who is comfortable at cnetre or second row. It appears that the club think this man is ABlett at the moment.

He's only 21 mate!!

Edited to say he was 22 yesterday

By rotating the positions your colourful antipodeans occupy over several seasons on two and three year contracts, allowing the youngsters time to develop and learn their trade. We're well into the process already, it's not like we're starting from scratch. Just occassionally a problem appears that needs solving. Failing to solve it is a problem.



None of them were coming for life. They were the colourful antipodeans that will still have contributed to the club during their stays both on and off the field. Clyde for example was an out and out Champion, how could a club not benefit from having him around?



Last year they thought it might be Anselme. They were right to identify the problem (caused by long term injuries) but failed to find the right option. When they realised it was no better than what they had already he didn't feature again.

Gilmour is a good example of a player capable of playing both positions but perhaps it highlights the dearth of quality available out there, when St Helens also claim to be operating with cap space to spare.

In Saints case it has nothing to do with the lack of quality available - they'd have to break the statutory minimum wage to employ an extra player with their remaining cap space