Wouldn’t that depend on how we were doing and what plan we had communicated?

Definitely wouldn't sack Betty the tea lady as a good cup of tea is probably the only potential pleasure at Headingley currently. I have always tried to he balanced about it and you cannot change every role at once in an organisation however clearly as a club we have issues at all levels and many where there before RS was appointed.
The last 2 games are just the culmination of issues that have either been there for a number of years at board and organisation level or that have steadily got worse at coaching and playing level all year.
I thought RS did well last year but this year has been a creeping disaster and I fear he is probably not the right man now however it's very hard to change at this stage although personally I would try and get Sean Wane.
The key worries regarding RS this year for me are as follows.

Coaching team according to Gary the coach picks them Walker and Grix not for me!
No proper pre-season and team seemed underprepared.
Experimenting with players out of position.
Passive Defense
Lack of clear attacking structure.
Poor communication and no leaders on the pitch possibly recruitment issue but Smith is passive as well.
Dealing with poor discipline. (Newman)
Appears to have lost the dressing room.

Now it's not all RS fault as I think Gary has thrown him under the bus a bit but if he picks the coaches and is in charge of recruitment and who stays and go's then somebody needs to stand up and take some responsibility

Salary cap not available on the night is huge, and includes arguably our first choice spine at the start of the season. Different reasons why some of these players aren't available but arguably only Leeming could have been replaced in-season.

Tetevano - marquee signing
Sezer - marquee or close to marquee money
Walters - our 'best young player' according to Wilkin
Myler - injured
Bentley - injured
Sangare - injured
Austin - left during season and not replaced
Leeming - left during season and not replaced
Macdonald - left during season and not replaced

How many games would Leeds have won in 2015 without Hardaker, McGuire, Sinfield and Aiton/Burrow all out, plus Peacock (as our highest paid forward, equivalent to Tetevano).

Exactly Seth….it’s like Groudhog day

Thing is if the club is rotten top to bottom a) then how do you explain the good results this year e.g. the Saints and Wigan games earlier season? Was everyone amazing then because we were winning? b) if there is a problem then the only common denominator is Hetherington I’m afraid.

Lost the dressing room? I don’t think so although these hammerings drive people apart obviously.

I’m not sure anyone on this forum really has an inside angle on the camp to know what we’re talking about.

Also as we’re discussing youth matts, who are you thinking we could see break through over the next year or two? I’ve given up predicting I usually can’t pick them.

There were 11 first choice players and a couple of experienced squad members e.g. Donaldson out there - the spine had 40% of its first choice line up. The performances the last two weeks suggest this is a cultural issue.

The wins against Wigan and Saints were clearly one offs - Saints on the back of the WCC and Wigan having a off day - it happens.

The players haven't seemed interested the past two weeks - when they had a chance of making the play offs - why is that?

No one on here is close to squad to know what is going on - the performance have been so poor they can't but lead to discussion and speculation.

If Leeds are in for Sam Powell ten something is very seriously wrong with player evaluation and the needs of the squad. What the club needs is more pace not less.

"lot of kids out there" and as the saying goes "You'll never win ow't with kids"

Our 2004 Grand Final winning squad v Bradford Bulls contained no fewer than 10 home grown players that were all aged between 21 and 24 and i'm sure that none of these players will have been on anywhere near the salaries that they eventually received a couple of seasons down the line.
Richie Mathers (21)
Mark Calderwood (23)
Chev Walker (22)
Kevin Sinfield (23)
Danny McGuire (22)
Danny Ward (24)
Matt Diskin (23)
Ryan Bailey (21)
Rob Burrow (21)
JJB (23)

Our key 1,6,7 and 9 spine positions were all filled by these home grown young kids.

The squad was complemented by some very astute signings from other SL clubs and from overseas.
Keith Senior, Marcus Bai, Chris McKenna, Ali Lauitiiti, Dave Furner, Willie Poching & Barry McDermott

This is what the club urgently need to get back to doing very well if we want to finally bring an end to this current 8 year transitional period, which has been an absolute shambles.

Agree that development of young players is the answer. Just look at Saints. But I'm not sure if SL clubs can attract the kind of talent from the NRL that we managed in 2004. Even then we only managed to sign Lauitiiti because he was unsettled. Right now the competition to sign the best English talent is much harder than before. We can't keep attracting the likes of Ellis and Senior from the traditional 'lower clubs'; in fact, that's what Leeds have become since 2017.

Stick Keith Senior, Marcus Bai, Chris McKenna, Ali Lauitiiti, Dave Furner, Willie Poching & Barry McDermott into Saturday's side and I think it would hav ebeen a very different outcome.

I agree on Powell although I can see Leeds being keen to bring “experience” in.

You can’t say two big wins with great performances are one offs, and then two horrible defeats when half a team is missing is the standard, that’s just not logical. The teams taking the field at the different times were very different, the coach is the same… you will all draw your own conclusions.

Agree with this.

Zoo Zoo, I hope you're not an accountant! The spine had 25% of its first choice lineup. Only one player, O'Connor out of four would be first choice. In any event the "%" is less important than the experience/ability of those we had. That was Hooley's 7th SL game. Sinfield's 10th and he clearly isn't ready for SL. Martin isn't even a halfback.

Even that doesn't really tell the story. Put any one of them in Sts team for one of Welsby/Dodd/Lomax and they'd probably look above average. Put all three in Sts team and I'm pretty sure Sts would look bang average on attack, regardless of what "structure" Sts are coached to, because as a unit they aren't even Championship standard if we're honest. They did OK against a Hull team that is probably as keen for the season to be over as we are, but Wigan and Cats are gearing up for the play offs. I suspect we'll get beaten quite easily by Cas as well, as even if our forwards put in a shift (which they clearly did not against Cats) we just don't have many points in us if they defend with determination.

The only way we can compete with the spine we have is by being as physical as possible and trying to keep errors low. There won't be much in the way of flowing moves because we don't have the players to do it. Sadly the forwards haven't been willing to get stuck in as a unit, and our threequarters tend to make bad decisions as well.

I think I’d go:

Hooley
Fus, Newman, J Smith, Handley
F McCormack, Sinfield
Mik, Johnson, Holroyd
McDonnell, Martin
C Smith

Walters, Lisone, O’Connor, Donaldson

Depending on who is fit. If we were a car tyre we would be illegal. I would run with everyone in their favoured positions as much as possible.

Swap hooley for edgell and Walters for Gannon as he isn’t here next year

I mentioned the Academy back line in another thread, i like them all, there are no cant miss prospects in the Watkins/Ward bracket, but theres plenty of Size, skill and athletic potential in the whole group

Lumb
Tchembembe
Smith
N McCormack
Frater
F McCormack
Sinfield

Im also a big fan of hooker Mason Corbett

Max Simpson is the obvious one, fingers crossed he can fully recover and have an injury free run.

I have been consistent on one particular intake since they first joined the Scholarship, and thats the bunch that have recently moved up to the Academy, Excellent bunch with some absolute quality 6 or 7 players deep, and really good players even deeper into the group. Thats where i think we have our real potential stars.

How far off are each of those kids Matts? 2-3 years at least?

Yeah most likely pal, the group with the star potential is 2 groups behind Sinfield, Smith, Lumb, N McCormack, Tchembembe etc so a while off yet

It all comes back to if Rohan got the boot in the off season who do we try and get to replace him? Who's actually available with experience to fill the role?

Rowley.

Of the spine 1,6,7,9,13 we had O'Connor and Smith i.e. 9 and 13 so that is 2 out of 5 I would suggest that is 40%. Perhaps your abacus wasn't working or you need to return to school for upgraded maths lessons.

On the forwards I agree with you - poor players with no heart for the battle or are trying to send a message to the coach?

Good call - he wouldn't take any crap from the likes of Newman

13 isn't in the spine. The spine is 1,6,7 and 9.

As an aside, years ago I remember listening to a discussion about why British halfbacks are generally useless, and one of the reasons they suggested was the British obsession with ball handling 13s. At the time I thought that was OTT, having been brought up watching Norton, Heron, Crane, Hanley etc, but I do think its part of the problem. Cleary, DCE, Reynolds etc do not need any 'help' setting up plays from a lumbering forward with the odd pass. Some Aussie forwards can pass really well (Wade Graham for example), but generally the 13 is a mobile prop in the NRL, and its been that way for decades.

If you asked all the people on here what is the spine everyone apart from yourself they would say 1,6,7,9 &13. We must agree to differ on that. Most on here would see Cameron Smith as ball playing forward.

The NRL is a different game to here far more evolved - the back row is 3 players most of the 13's in the NRL are closer to a second row forward than a prop i.e. fast running forward that has footwork and passing skills not just another battering ram. How best describes Carrigan at the Broncos who plays Lock as they call the 13 - a prop or a second row forward?