Seem to have a 3rd season syndrome

Smith's 3rd year - 3rd place, eliminated first week of the playoffs, CC semi defeat.
McClennen - 4th place, lost GF qualifier, CC final defeat, WCC defeat.
McDermott - 3rd place, lost GF qualifier, CC 5th round, WCC defeat.

Changing coach will, IMO, have absolutely zero effect unless it is accompanied by an acknowledgement that now is the time to start refreshing the forward pack in particular.

You've changed your tune since last week, but this year was the year to start refreshing the forward pack, unless players like Amor, Taylor and Walmsley are magically available again. Taylor was the second best prop on display last night, by the way.

Amir remains a big puzzle. Would love to know why he was allowed to leave in favour of Kirke and/or Moore

If we'd signed taylor and walmsley our pack would be sorted.

What was Bailey trying to do to Tomkins?

It looked like the kind of behaviour one would expect in prison where the bigger inmate is about to sodomise and rape the smaller one and then tear him a new one.

Very strange and embarrassing indeed.

So if we win it's because of the players but if we lose it's because of the coach?

Suppose I best not mention the salary cap irregularities either?

Congratulations.

You've figured out how Southstander works.

Remember when people were telling us Tony Smith wouldn't make it because he was too much of a disciplinarian and the players didn't like him?

What's the relevance with that Andy and the post from AJC?

Smith did make it, and had a group of excellent winning players that continued to keep winning for another coach after him, still before McDermott arrived at the club.

The relevance being that even great players require coaching, be it a change in structure or simply a kick up the backside. Coaching a proven squad can be more difficult than assembling a squad of their own. In big Keith's book he spoke about the players relationship with Bluey & how that went sour in the end (leading to Bluey's resignation). McD has had the same amount of time in the hot seat, delivering an identical return, yet isn't given anywhere near the same amount of credit as his predecessor. He still seemingly has the dressing room too

What do you call the same return?

I am presuming you are talking about trophies? So a bandwaggoner you are then?

We are miles away from the same return. Poor quality rugby played throughout his term in comparison to his predecessor. No obvious succession plan in place, his predecessor did not need to do as the players were set up still for a few years.

The tools were there for McDermot to create a new era. I was excited about his appointment at the time. In his first year I along with Juan Cornetto continually defended him on this forum. For me McDermott lost what he was here for, as buckled under the pressure to deliver, and has put us in a much weaker position. He is not the strong individual I thought he was, he dare not make decisions needed. He has his favourite players regardless of form, and won't let go of the tie and dare not move on.

Spot on

Is there any need for clueless insults? I've been a 'bandwagoner' since 1986. I've seen far worse seasons than 2013 and fully expect I will see far worse seasons than 2013. You seem to think that Leeds are unique in having a general downturn in on pitch performance (as discussed in another topic).

Who should we have signed in your opinion? Who should be coach in your opinion? Who shouldn't we have let go? We have a fantasticly run club (about the only SL club capable of delivering profit) but that means we also have the tightest CEO. No matter what our ideals and dreams may be the fact there is no money to go throwing around, added to the constraints of the cap, mean that reality has to take control.

For me mcdermott set out his steal for the season early and stick with it. Ultimately it was unsuccessful.
Next season I would hope that he has a different plan for the season. If we get more of the same I would be disappointed, and would expect him to move on at the end of the season.

He is clueless, not sure why it's been debated, he's fortunate to have been in charge of the best group of Leeds players ever.

His reliance on them and lack of foresight to start transitioning has left Leeds with an explosive back line, no pivots with pace, no hooker and an ageing forward pack.

Shocking in all honesty!!

this. spot on

If only we could go back to the glory years of the 90's eh. Spend what we want on who we want, near destroy the club & still win nowt. Our club is in good hands, keep the faith brother

Looking at how the Dragons improved under him and how well the Roosters are going I would say Trent Robinson might have been quite a good appointment - one thing is for sure the senior players would have known who was boss and the play would have been significantly more structured than what we have now.

What happened to Tony Smith - player power - off he trotted!!

Perhaps with a little more politeness I must agree.

You only need to look at his consistent bloody hopeless use of his squad - and indeed bench - to see his true abilities.
His relationship with his first choice 'old guard' has paid dividends the last few seasons (that cannot be denied), but now is the time to bring in an outsider with no previous sentimentality to impair judgement moving forward

Player recruitment and retention decisions at Leeds are not the sole preserve of the coach. Would have thought that would have been obvious by now.

In fact I believe the coach only has minimal input, as is the case in most teams.

GH wanted webb to stay but BMD wanted shut. he went.

the coach does have input although its fair to say GH has the final word

And yet it's the coach who cops the flak when something doesn't work out.

GH is bulletproof in the eyes of most Leeds fans.

Not mine. His eye has been off the ball since 2009.

But recruitment might be done by GH, but I don't believe for one minute he told McDermott he couldn't have an hooker and use Burrow there. Nor do I believe that he told McDermott which players to keep selecting in the first team.