McDermott should have gone at the end of the 2015 season. He thought it was great idea for the club to have a few seasons in the doldrums so the supporters would appreciate the good times even more. McDermott started this and the club have been unable to turn it around.

They are now in a catch 22 - they can't get the better players because the club is a shambles and the can't redress the shambles util they get better players.

Two of the big signings of the summer can't get in the side of their current club - what does that say?

We can't live our lives in hindsight. McDermott was never going to be sacked after 2015 and he'd credit in the bank for all of 2016. Maybe after Cas away in '17 there was a chance but end of that season meant the reality was he was safe again. And rightly so because we won the title again!

Apart from the letting Newman go bit I agree. It's too easy to keep trotting out the " young / inexperienced " line up excuse. It's the senior players under performing week after week and the lack of organisation and leadership that has been our biggest problem all season. Smith has failed to sort that out all year.

All the warning signs are there that the problems we have are not going anywhere with RS in charge. So much of the season people have given reasons and patience for where the teams been at, this is now as low a point as we've had in recent years, not much better than 96 and gives bullsgate a run for its money. Talk about missing players all you like and give more excuses but he cant get anything like the best out of some pretty experienced players and his playing philosophy has been a mess all year. 10 games into next year and we're going to be in even more trouble.

Who do we get you ask, well, it's a pretty low bar that's been set. Not a good time for the smith family.

We have no money to rebuild to squad as we are mortgaged to the hilt for 40 years with 2 new stands, and season ticket sales will dwindle now too

Are you the accounts manager doing the rounds, then liking your own post.

Are you suggesting we can't have a good team for 40 years?? According to GH we've always spent to the cap. Given how bad the side has been for almost 10 years that speaks volumes about how appallingly managed our spend has been.

I said the same about the kids line. The players we had out could have competed much better against Wigan and Cats. With no halfbacks everybody else has to put in a real shift as a team, and they just haven't.

Look at that spine though - a champonship fullback, an 18 year old, a centre, and a hooker in his first full season in SL... There are reasons why this is the case, but realistically this is why we have been pointless for two weeks against top 4 opposition.

Confidence is obviously shot too. There is no belief, and not much to play for when we get behind on the scoreboard.

The Cas game is another matter and Smith has stated he expects (or at least wants) a win to bring a close to this awful season.

Thats all well and good but how are you going to explain the real problems with these performances? Falling off tackles, lack of any intent carrying the ball, lack of desire, unforced errors, dumb penalties and 6 agains, you know, the basic skills and mindset that go before any win. If turning up for yourself and eachother and the players at the side of you isn't enough to play for then theres some more weeding out of players that don't want it to come.

Wow , our ambition has no ends , a win against a dire Cas team is the height of our achievement hopes . Lets hope Cas are not up for it or the pre season clash against Hunslet may be our next win target

Hooley, Olpherts (who was directly responsible for errors leading to their first three tries IMO), Ruan, Sinfield, Donaldson are all reserve/back up players. That’s 5/17.

In addition we have a back rower at 6 and a winger in the centre.

Most of the players didn’t lack effort. The team is busted and falls apart under pressure in the circumstances.

Oledski was the player running back to try to take their winger into touch for that first try. McDonnell and Holroyd always give 100%. Smith tried hard too.

It does annoy me when people make broad brush statements like players are all 3/10 when we lose and 9/10 when we win. It’s just rubbish. Of course we should have performed better last 2 games but some of you would sack Hetherington, JJB, all the players, all the coaching staff and Betty the tea lady.

The effort last night was awful, it wasnt just the quality. Highlighting Oledzski chasing back, alright, what about the weak carries and getting brushed of by mcmeeken like he was nothing. Lisone when he came on, Fusitua, in patches Handley, Gannon played to the level where hes at, beyond that im struggling.

I don’t think Oledski was the problem last night. Cats took us down the edges very effectively where Handley/Awfulpherts couldn’t handle defensive structure and Newman wasn’t much better on the other side. Hooley seemed out of position, I like the see the FB somewhere in the frame at least when you’re broken in the centres or wing.

Actually thought young Sinfield had a better defensive and all-round game as well.

We got mullered but I think RS had it about right in the presser: too many player changes and then under pressure the team cohesion broke and we had individuals trying to solve too much.

We'll disagree then, aside from the much publicised disruption (why are we having incidents like Nene and Austin like to the level weve not seen before, RS?) there are fundamental expectations on professional players at this level that were dire, park the excuses we get them, this season has been awful punctuated by an absolute sht show this last couple of week that goes far beyond mitigation.

Austin is and always has been a firebrand and that’s part of the reason he’s over here and not NRL. His temperament is poor. The club is right not to be dictated to by individual players.

Nene I have no clue what’s happened there but I suspect he has been offered an NRL deal off the back of his form and is looking at 2x salary or something with a new baby over there too - also another one with a chequered past and poor decision making.

I’d rather the club was more disciplinarian not less. Newman’s antics are embarrassing at times.

Bentley has also embarrassed the club with his fighting around the England set up last year.

This is where a McDermott or a Wane just wouldn’t put up with some of the stuff happening with players.

My reading of this week's Yorkshire Post interview with GH was that basically 2023 was written off as a bad job. I'm not really surprised that this attitude has filtered down to the players and probably explains, along with the limited availability of playing staff, why the last two results have been so poor. The way they treated players on the last year of their contract wasn't the best way to motivate players to give their all for Leeds, so we have players leaving during the season with no replacement available, and this will probably make it harder to bring players in new players in the near future. Refusing to discuss new contracts until the end of the season isn't exactly matching up to the old "loyalty" angle they used to sell to the players. Along with the corrections to suggest things last year went better than they actually did, the old standards like emphasising the academy when asked about signings, and not so subtle comments putting the responsibility on the coach, these leave me with no more faith in GH's optimism than I've had for a long time. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/r ... re-4336911

My reading of this week's Yorkshire Post interview with GH was that basically 2023 was written off as a bad job. I'm not really surprised that this attitude has filtered down to the players and probably explains, along with the limited availability of playing staff, why the last two results have been so poor. The way they treated players on the last year of their contract wasn't the best way to motivate players to give their all for Leeds, so we have players leaving during the season with no replacement available, and this will probably make it harder to bring players in new players in the near future. Refusing to discuss new contracts until the end of the season isn't exactly matching up to the old "loyalty" angle they used to sell to the players. Along with the corrections to suggest things last year went better than they actually did, the old standards like emphasising the academy when asked about signings, and not so subtle comments putting the responsibility on the coach, these leave me with no more faith in GH's optimism than I've had for a long time. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/r ... re-4336911

No excuses

Smiths had an absolute shocker this season, not the only issue with the club at present, far from it, but most definitely one of them. Dating back to pre-season, he's got just about everything wrong.

The bull e that a section of the fanbase keep lapping up is astounding:

We're a young team - are we? and even if we are, Most of our younger players have actually regressed from where they were a year ago

We've been in a lot of close games - Is that meant to be a positive? If we were a remotely decent team, we'd of won a lot of them close games by double digits, not losing them. Hull KR at home, they had all the excuses we currently use to lose that game, but they came, showed a bit of desire and intelligence, and got the win, in the same situation, we down tools and play like brain dead idiots with zero pride in themselves.

Playing structure - We havnt got one, its not that its bad, its worse than that, we just havnt got one. Thats why when squad players step in, we fall off a ciff, the throw the ball around and hope for a bit of magic, dosnt work, because they arnt capable of it, everyone then loses composure and gets frustrated and we fall apart. Well coached teams have a structure that squad players can fit into, they're not as good as the starters, but can still be a cog in the system.

The seasons been an absolute show from everyone within the club, Smith included.

I think RS has been coaching for nearly 20 years including behind the scenes roles at NRL clubs. The fact that he is attempting to replace the entire spine at Leeds which he inherited tells you where he’s not happy with the squad.

I agree that structure has been missing this season all too often but either Austin and Sezer have failed to provide it or we’ve been running without recognised halves. Individual errors from players have also denied us much structure because we’ve been constantly on the back foot/losing the energy battle.

Our D has actually been pretty good all year other than the last 2 games, which coincides with just too many players gone or out of position.

We are all frustrated but the side will be totally different next year and we’re going to have to wait to see what RS pulls out with a new spine and other key players in place.

Confidence is shot. Players are making the effort but it's as individuals. We saw exactly the same under Furner, and towards the end of his time at Leeds, Agar too.

It's a sorry state of affairs at the club. I'd like to see GH taking more of a responsible attitude than this. When there's implicit blame being passed around from the top-down it doesn't bode well for the health of the organisation, and I agree there's a likely a connection between this message and on-field performances.

As fans, we like there to be a simple solution - a new CEO, a new coach, a new signing etc, but Leeds are in such a mess that I don't think any of these things are going to be enough on their own. The drive to be better has to be sustained from within or the club will be condemned to mediocrity for a long time to come.

There is a simple solution, it’s just not a quick one. Both GH and RS need to move on, GH to purely the non rugby side, and RS out of the club altogether.

I don’t see us back seriously challenging for another 2-3 years yet.

2-3 years ago people were saying exactly the same, so maybe make that another 4-6.

Im not talking about next year though Jim, im talking about this season, from pre-season to now, Smith's had a shocker, even regular fans with a basic knowledge base could see pre-season was a shambles as it was happening, they were right

And that tradjectory has been maintained throughout the season, he's largely to blame for the lack of cohesion with his 'why slot in one player when i can move 3' approach to someone being unavailable.

A structure should be implemented regardless of personel, you will get different levels of fit depending on players abilitys, but a structure should still be visable, these arnt u8's we're talking about, for all the talk of a young side, o'conner aside, we've had the oldest spine in the comp, but our only visable pattern of attacking play was still throw the ball about and hope for the best, a coach should be able to get more from experienced halfs/fullback, wether they are his ideal spine or not. Now they arnt available we'r seeing the cost of the lack of structure, because players with less talent/expierience are now in that position of having to conjure something out of nothing, and they cant do it.

Now im not suggesting he cant turn it around, or that he wasnt a breath of fresh air last year, but talking about his performance this season in isolation, he's had a shocker, no two ways about it

If Betty did the team talk next week we would probably get a better response from the players. Rohan is a joker.

Let's say that happens starting tomorrow. 12-18 months in, fans will be saying exactly the same thing with the new CEO and coach. What do we do then, stick or twist?