That's whole different subject


Personally, I feel that's the way the league should be going, and is going.
Others would rather see the "big" clubs, their clubs, dominant in the transfer market and hope that would equate to playing success.

By short term, I was thinking more along the lines of it being a player to fill in a right centre for example, likely meaning one of Smith or Hall missing game time and not developing.

On the squad not performing, was it this thread or the other, where I had said that one players level of performance changing is down to the player, lots of players level of performance changing is down to the coach.
Our coaching staff need to be looking at what they're doing with the team, not looking at bringing in new players (to play below their potential, too)

So is that a change to the coaching methods or a change of the coaching set-up that is required?

McClennan (contracted until the end of 2010), Cummins, Poching and Gross. If they devised a plan they thought was right at the outset will they be able to change direction mid season or is it just a matter of small adjustments to get the squad firing again?

Someething in that area.
I doubt we would sack a GF winning coach the season after, and nor should we. Although Saints do seem to have been more ruthless with their coaching staff over the years...I think.
Something is obviously not working - current form is too poor to be simply a case of holding back our form to peak later in the season.
We have had times under Tony Smith when every player seemed to underperform, and the team seemed to have no plan. He turned it around, no reason to believe the current setup can't do the same.

Yep rating's. www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... 5206407.jp

Yep rating's. www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... 5206407.jp

This where you simply don't get it - why have played so many players at right centre? because we haven't got a natural right centre so we have no option but to play players out of position so to take you arguement to its logical conclusion we have 25 options at right centre what we don't have a specialist right centre.

That is one issue not the only issue - the thing about the squad is it not better on paper than Saints, Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull, it could be argued that the likes of Warrington on paper have a better squad the problem is the game is not played on paper. Saints, Wigan and Huddersfield have a far better set of youngsters coming through to pad their squads out. If you don't agree do the comparison player for player.

Another issue where the size of the squad comes in is when players are performing badly and need resting - the current squad does not have the depth to replace these players without a significant drop of performance. So all that happens is these just get their confidence drained completely and as a result their performances suffer - if you went to the game on Friday look at the likes of Burrow, Webb, Senior, JJB, Kirke, Diskin all of these players need rotating to give them an opportunity to regain their confidence - the current squad does not allow that so you end up with a downward spiral which also effects the players who were playing OK.

Finally if the players don't believe the club have given them the tools to do the job ie a competitive squad that will drain their confidence and belief - the defeats to Saints - by the captain's admission - really knocked them to be demolished twice over by a team you could beat shows all the players where the momentum is - and don't forget Saints played the CC cup game away from hope without their playmaker!! One of the reasons Harris left Leeds was because the club failed to build on the platform set by Murray this current situation is the third time this has happened - coincidence!!!

Unreal - it is precisely that this is hurting us the lack of quality - perhaps if we brought a right centre in who played to his potential might help - who is to say he will play below his potential.

This is a pretty weak squad - no longer the dominant force it was - teams like Huddersfield have strengthened both with overseas and youngsters, Saints have an abundance of youngsters and we have a weaker squad than last year - could be why we are struggling a bit.

The wins in 2007 and 2008 covered up much of what had been a gradual decline in squad quality - 2009 has seen this decline really being exposed

We have a great player to play right centre. Unfortunately, he's had to play fullback at the start of the season, and is currently out injured. He'll fit in fine there once back. Of course, that won't cause the team to suddenly pick up form.

Our squad is significantly better than the likes of Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull and Warrington. I know you're a pessimistic defeatist Dave, but that's ridiculous.

In this salary cap era, it just isn't possible to have the kind of depth that means you can leave out the likes of Burrow, Webb, Senior, JJB, Kirke, Diskin and bring in reserves of equal quality. That's the whole point of the cap - that richer teams don't stockpile the talent, and then keep it in reserve.

The fact that Saints worked around their squad limitations and beat us with their equivalent of JJB at scrum half imagine your criticism of our squad depth if we played JJB in the halves!) just proves that it isn't the squad depth that's the issue, it's how they play.

Well, why would he be any different to the rest of the Rhinos squad?

No Saints played the equivelent of Sinfield at scrum half - Wilkins is their stand off - you are the only person who thinks otherwise - not a second row forward - this is what you do when your arguement has been found out - do you think their would be much uproar if Sinfield and McGuire played in the halves - it was like when you compared the squads you moved all the players round to suit your arguement - pathetic.

Do the comparison with Huddersfield and see if you still agree and with Wigan - but don't move the players round and see if you arguement still stands up!!

Dave, if Wilkin is their stand off, who is Leon Pryce?

How many of Wigan's or Huddersfield's players would you take over their equivalent at Leeds?

pryce played scrum half in that game

Thought the two of them split the playmaking pretty much evenly betwen them, and though Wilkin took on most of the kicking.
Yet Saints were able to work around that, and still beat us.

Richie, you seem to be saying that "it's all down to the coach", without actually saying "it's all down to the coach".

or am I reading you wrong????

Well, it's that or the fans



Interesting how different coaches are treated by fans. I still reckon PR skills can be a coaches greatest asset

Exactly as Leeds would do if Burroe didn't play Sinfield would play 6 and McGuire at 7 - Saints played Wilkin at 6 their 13 same as Sinfield and Pryce at 7 - they didn't play Flannery - JJB equivelent at 6 - again all you are doing is trying to twist stuff just accept you are wrong and move on.

Of the Huddersfield squad

Hodgson, Whatuira,David Hodgson,Robinson,Crabtree, Griffin,Wild, Finnigan, Lawrence, Moore all of whom are better than their counterparts in the Rhinos squad and they have a winger currently playing at Batley who is potentially the next Offiah in the right hands. Their juniors are now beating ours pretty easily!!!

i wouldn't agree with that assessment david. robinson better than burrow?
no chance.

what i will say is if there was one season we needed a large squad it's this one,what with the quick turnaround after the world cup.players will need plenty of rest this season.
we have the smallest squad we have had in a while with NO spare players in the forwards.
all this while still well under the cap.
will the sleeve not let him spend it?
does the coach not want to spend it?
when did we last spend the full cap.

Smith got plenty of leeway in 2005 when he basically blew the lot - he even got pretty lightly with 2006 the worst season in the Rhinos SL history which include the CC semi against Huddersfield so not sure you are correct and there are many on here who see critisising Smith as akin to treason.

Perhaps Hetherington is realistic about income and as any business you need to show a profit - if he can win the GF without spending the full cap good for him.

On Robinson I think he has more facets to his game than Burrow who is a bit of one trick pony who has been found out - 2008 wasn't his greatest year - his game hasn't moved on in two years one of the problem on Friday was the number of times he kicked the ball straight to a huddersfield player on the full

and what if he can't David? Will we have been short changed as the supporters are still paying full price to watch less than full price performances....

That is the chance all businesses take - how far can they cut costs before their service is compromised - I suspect GH is right their now. If they upset their customers will they come back especially the corporates who basically have numerous alternatives in a very competitive market

I suspect we will see some announcements of signings for next year in the near future not sure he will able to do much for this year

leeds have won the Gf for the last two years and with the prize money,spondership,big average crowds and corporate hospitality which comes with it i find it criminal that we don't spend the full cap when we obviously need it.

Expect announcements around about the time season tickets are up for renewal.

Graham GH would have spent the money on both Soliola and Eastwood sadly neither materialised what is criminal is that he had no fall back position

I suspect it will not take that long - corporate stuff is usually tied up well before season tickets go on sale and they will some encouragement if things continue this season as they have