Sorry but you don't know what Walters is on, so can not just assume that. To be honest it wouldn't matter if Walters was 10th or 11th in the pecking order, it is wrong to do that. He is holding back someone else for no need. Never of the right quality.

Why is it wrong? Who's he holding back? He comes in and does the job McDermott needs/wants him to do. I'll trust his view on Walters capabilities over yours and whether a different kid should get a go ahead of him. There are plenty who bagged McD for his continued selection of Kirke - that didn't work out so bad for us did it?

As for his salary, no I don't know exactly what he's on, but I do know through contscts he's one of the lowest paid in the squad. His salary is meaningless/insignificant in terms of the club's ability to attract a different player.

Kirke was woeful & retained 3years too long his continued selection only proved the Coach had his favourites.

Ah right so you are one of those hypocrit fools? You come on slating Mullalley, who is continually picked by Mcermot, but when some one else comments on another, the excuse is he does the job of the coach and you respect the coaches View on him.

You don’t see how hypocritical you look?

I'm far from a Kirke fan - for his size, he was nowhere near as strong in attack as he should have been, but he was excellent defensively, missed very very few tackles and made very very few errors. There was a period where he'd not missed a tackle or made an error for something ridiculous like 10 games. Granted he played a very minor role, but his job was to come on, make a few drives, make lots of tackles around the ruck and give JP a breather so he could come back on and do his thing. So slate Kirke all you want, McD made it work for the team and we won multiple championships - what more can we expect.

Kirkes final 3 years were quite baron actually, only a Championship, a WCC and breaking our challenge cup duck in his final year to show for it.

Me thinks some people have gotten spoilt!

Not hypocritical in the slightest.

I don't rate Mullally, I didn't rate Kirke, but Kirke could do the job he was asked to do, and it worked extremely well in the end for the team. I think Mullally is slightly better than Kirke in attack once the ball is in his hands, and he's nowhere near as effective as Kirke in defence.

There's some differences in the roles the players are required to do, which stop my points being hypocritical.

Kirke was almost a 2nd tier forward, there to do.his specific job. McD got the best for the team out of using him. I didn't rate Kirke, but it worked for the team more often than not. I thought many times we had better players in the squad than Kirke, and that he was lucky to get picked ahead of them, but it worked, so well done McD.

Walters is far from a top line player, but he comes in when required and does the job McD sets of him (otherwise he wouldn't be picked again). Again, I think there's probably more skilful kids out there, but McD trusts in him, and he did score a GF winning try - well done McD.

Mullally I don't rate, and because of the current state of the squad, he's one of our main pack men. I don't blame McD for picking him, because he's got no better options in the squad currently. So my point is, we need more front line props of a much better standard than Mullally. If he was only required to do a bit part job, then he'd not be so bad. But with the age of our other pack men and the state of Super League squads in general, a player of his standard is too high up the pecking order for any super league squad in my opinion. His wage will be irrelevant, as I doubt he'll be a big earner.

listen to you two arguing over two players who shouldn't be anywhere near a team with top 4 ambitions. both are garbage. walters scored a gf try. great. he's awful. dreadful.

Erm they were in a team that finished 2nd last year (walters was in a team that finished 1st aswell)so your point is rather daft.

You can't have stars in all 25 squad spaces, so you've got to expect some lower quality down the pecking order. But would agree, the standards of those lower quality players are slipping dramatically, and lower quality players are creeping higher in our squad than in a long time.

The salary cap can't be an issue for Leeds, as this squad should be nowhere near the full cap spend, and if it is, someone's royally F'd up. So then the question is why aren't we - is it simply we can't attract players of the calibre that are worth spending bigger money on, or are the club really tightening the purse strings due to the building works. Either way, it's a worry....

But I still wouldn't write the team off just yet this year. While ever they are a mathematical possibility of silverware, they've got a fighters chance. And even though I'd be less confident this year than for probably the last 15 years, I'd still back them in a knockout game against anyone - even with Walters and Mullally in the team. Realistically, Challenge Cup is doable - 1 of 2 major trophies ain't a bad return, but the squad needs massively investing in.

You make it sound like he was key to our success me thinks some people are to doe eyed to see what he actually brought during those last 3 years.

how many games did Walters play? he's garbge

Not at all. Like I say, at the time I thought there were better players in the squad who should have been picked ahead of him, but in hindsight, and having heard people like JP talk since that time, it's clear Kirke had a very limited, but specific role to play, and McD obviously chose him based on his ability to do that specific role over a player with better ability all round ability.
I didn't rate Kirke, but ultimately we won 5 Grand Finals and a Challenge Cup with him in the team- so.yes, I'm willing to say he was a very important cog in the machine. He wasn't a JP, Sinny, Burrow or McGuire, but he was important none the less, like all the other players who played a part.

11 times last season, about right for a squad player

doesn't alter that fact he's garbage

He's not garbage though is he? He's average. He doesn't miss dramatically more tackles than many other squad second rowers in Super League, he doesn't make that many more errors. He's probably about number 23/24 in the pecking order and he doesn't complain about it. He's probably paid peanuts and he doesn't complain about it. If our squad all stays fit he hardly gets any game time and he doesn't complain about it. He comes in when he's needed and he does an ok job, not great, not terrible, ok. That's the point of having a squad, especially with a salary cap.

He isn't average, he is very far from average. He is absolute garbage. Whether your stats show he doesn't miss many tackles or not is a complete waste, becaue it is the gaps he leaves and his reading of the game that puts him way behind bang average players whom he is up against.

This rubbish line trotted out all the time on only this board, no other clubs are dumb enough to fall for it, that he is paid low and comes in and does his job, is exactly why we hit the sort of form we hit regularly now. This line is not acceptable for a top six club, let alone a top four club. You could pay Walters in protein bars, it would still be a waste of something.

but we are all very happy that he was on hand to take that pass and score the try that won the grand final and secure the treble in 2015 . Yes having said that I cant understand how he's got a new deal . Also I wonder if Peteru will see out his contract ?

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The effect on those around him of Walters being so slow in mind and body is huge. And, as I mentioned, there must be loads of young, hungry lads at Champ 1 clubs who are capable of doing a better job for similar pay, as well as those in the 19s.

If he's so utterly garbage, why does McD pick him? Does he not want to win games?

If there are better options available to do the job McD asks Walters to do, why do you think he doesn't pick them? It's ludicrous.

no it's not it's opinion.

and he also played joe vickery.remember him?

Because McDermott is stubborn and arrogant enough to go with what he wants. As I said yesterday why do you believe he is so wrong in picking Mullalley but yet he knows what he is doing in picking Walters?

McDermott has it wrong, Walters is garbage, and there is much better options.

I don't say he's wrong for picking Mullally, he's not got much option! he's not picking Mullally over a better player. My point is that we should have a much better squad, that can include Mullally, but much further down the pecking order.
Walters is not garbage, he does a job as one of the very lowest in the pecking order of our squad. I don't really know what you expect from someone on the money and squad placing he's on. He's making absolutely the most of his more limited skill set- it's a shame may more naturally gifted players don't have the same levels of desire and work ethic.
Whether it's arrogance or stubbornness, McD 'wants'to pick Walters for a reason - that reason can only be that he thinks he can do a better job (in a specific role) than the remaining fit players in the squad could do (which is usually only 1 or 2 fit players left by the time Walters gets a gig).

I like Mullally. He seems to have the right attitude, and knows where the try line is. I'd rather he was pinged for doing something aggressive like lifting his knees (it didn't do the likes of Stuart Fielden any harm), so long as he sorts his technique out in the longer run.

Not sure what the prop forwards' union make of him being a vegan, not to mention the flowing locks / top-knot... Nice publicity story for the club alongside Ward's efforts on mental health issues though.

The argument about Walters, at least for me, isn't about him being picked now so much as why on earth you'd give him a new contract. He's been around for years and is still no higher than 24/25 in the squad and no signs of ever going better. That role - playing 5-10 games a year when injuries hit - ought to be earmarked for younger players who at least could improve, rather than someone who adds little and never will.

His try in the 2015 GF was great. It in no way means he merits a long career at Leeds.