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Going on loan was a good idea. As I posted on here at the time my wakey supporting mates raved about him. The reports and marks in trade papers were very complimentary. You get the feeling once he was Gone he was forgotten by Leeds and they weren't interested.
Whatever the reasons it was a huge error especially by a coach who if anyone could recognize a good prop it's him
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| Quote ="tad rhino" You get the feeling once he was Gone he was forgotten by Leeds and they weren't interested.
'"
This is how i see it too.Anyone paying a bit of attention could see Amor was making big strides at Wakey compared to his early, fish out of water, few games for us.If he was still with us now he would be the second best prop at the club behind only JP and way ahead of the likes of Kirke,Achurch and Kylie who is running on fumes. |
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It does strike me as an odd decision. You have to wonder why Leeds didn't rate him highly
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| Freely admit to being one of those none-too-fussed when Amor signed for Wakey. Luckily I'm not the one being paid to get these decisions right 
Having seen a couple of his recent performances, I'm wondering whether we didn't miss the boat twice-over. The reported £30k fee that Saints paid to Wakey is starting to look awfully good value. |
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Unfortunately, Amor does seem to be the one that got away.
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It's irritating the situation regarding amor.
We are gagging for a player like that at the moment.
We had him just a few years ago. If we had simply shown patience like we did with ablett and and buchanon our pack would be much better equipped.
Short sightedness from the club, don't know how people can squirm and defend the decision.
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I thought it was mistake in not retaining him,unfortunately it looks like a very big mistake!!.
What makes it worse is when they come back and play really well against us, still nothing can surpass us turning Jason Robinson away.
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When we let Amor go in the first place was almost unforgivable but to not pick him up when Wakefield were selling the family silver was definitely unforgivable.
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Another one who, without hindsight-bias, was confused when we let Amor go and said so at the time after the first year at Wakefield. He was the best prop on the pitch other than JP in our games with the Wildcats that year, looked impressive in the other couple of games I saw him television, and got rave reviews all season on the Wakey board. If it was a salary or space issue, the decision, loyal or not and decent as Kylie was last year, to keep Kylie was incorrect if it was a straight choice between him and the much younger man. And that's without bringing Kirke or Bailey into it or considering this year. Isn't that *exactly* what a loan to a SL club is for? To give a promising player first-team experience, get them battle-hardened and see how they cope before promoting them back into the fold?
Also, weren't we courting Alex Walmsley for a while, with reports of GH wining him at Headingley? He's a work in progress, but The spot he would have taken was filled up by Mitch Achurch, possibly to justify an otherwise empty-handed jaunt down-under. The Peacock succession policy would look a lot smoother with those two on the books.
Could be worse though. To Backwoodsman, there is soething that can surpass turning Jason Robinson away, and that's turning Ellery Hanley away.
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I believe i too was one who presented the case for Amor to be retained after his one year loan spell at Wakefield never mind when they needed to sell him recently.
I quite understand Amors reluctance to want to come back to us after we left him out to dry and even if we could have paid the asking price I see him turning us down.
Barry Mac raved about him whilst he was at Leeds so it is even more surprising nobody listened to him.
Certainly would have been the best we had after JP.
Not to worry Hill, Walmsley and Amor have gone now but we have got Yates.
Lets hope he makes up for our loss.
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| Quote ="chapylad"
Not to worry Hill, Walmsley and Amor have gone now but we have got Yates.
Lets hope he makes up for our loss.'"
You cant snap up every potential and snap up every potential that will make it.
Look at Paul Johnson, who caught the eye at Dewsbury.
Wakefield and Hull snapped him up, now he's at Widnes at potentially his last crack to keep in Super Leagues. Hes found the jump up between divisions tough. |
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| Quote ="thebloodbath"You cant snap up every potential and snap up every potential that will make it.
Look at Paul Johnson, who caught the eye at Dewsbury.
Wakefield and Hull snapped him up, now he's at Widnes at potentially his last crack to keep in Super Leagues. Hes found the jump up between divisions tough.'"
That`s true but we were apparently looking at Walmsley and could/should have got it before Saints and we had Amor twice and let him go even though others rated him highly.
My point is we seem to miss out on the good signings or potential good signings which is a worry.
I hope young Yates is as good as those we have missed or let go.
Someone has seen the potential in him and that is good news for the long term future in our need to strengthen the pack. |
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Quote ="ThePrinter"Anybody still in any doubt that tvoc is backtracking and avoiding simple questions.'"
You're asking questions that you should have already known the answers to before mashing the figures to make a false comparison.
Quote ="ThePrinter"You said if anything you claimed were wrong you'd leave the board.
So how were the 2013 stats incomplete like you claimed? What games are missing?'"
Those that Opta don't include on that website - and never have..... like ever.
Quote ="ThePrinter"You were wrong to claim that, thus "I'll leave the board if I'm wrong" comes into play
'"
All Opta stats (at least those you appeared to be using from here - www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player_stats )
have always been incomplete as they have never included every 1st grade game played in any season - which is why when I said both the 2012 and 2013 figures you used were incomplete it was a true statement then and it is no less true today.
__________
Quote ="ThePrinter"I can't correct the stats until you tell me how 2013 was incomplete in terms of games. As I'm of the opinion only 2012 is incomplete then it would be utterly pointless to post new stats as my 2013 numbers would be the same, but you claim an error with them.
Do share.'"
The fact that the Opta stats are incomplete (while being a perfectly true statement) was never the critical flaw in your comparison between 2012 and 2013 - it was always an element =#FF0000[size=150you[/size introduced which skewed the results. That skew (innocently made or not) just happened to favour your conclusion but do the accurate figures?
Either add the missing game's stats into the 2012 figures or remove those additional games from the 2013 figures - so that a comparison (even one that uses an incomplete data set) can be made.
IIRC when I did this most of the six forwards results didn't support your conclusion that followed on page 4 - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394450501&start=32
Quote ="ThePrinter"An almost entire clean sweep of improvement from 2012 by the whole forwards in the two big departments'"
__________
With the benefit of hindsight perhaps I should have just posted the opening two lines of my first post on this thread and left it at that.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394451547&start=43 |
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Quote ="ThePrinter"Anybody still in any doubt that tvoc is backtracking and avoiding simple questions.'"
You're asking questions that you should have already known the answers to before mashing the figures to make a false comparison.
Quote ="ThePrinter"You said if anything you claimed were wrong you'd leave the board.
So how were the 2013 stats incomplete like you claimed? What games are missing?'"
Those that Opta don't include on that website - and never have..... like ever.
Quote ="ThePrinter"You were wrong to claim that, thus "I'll leave the board if I'm wrong" comes into play
'"
All Opta stats (at least those you appeared to be using from here - www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player_stats )
have always been incomplete as they have never included every 1st grade game played in any season - which is why when I said both the 2012 and 2013 figures you used were incomplete it was a true statement then and it is no less true today.
__________
Quote ="ThePrinter"I can't correct the stats until you tell me how 2013 was incomplete in terms of games. As I'm of the opinion only 2012 is incomplete then it would be utterly pointless to post new stats as my 2013 numbers would be the same, but you claim an error with them.
Do share.'"
The fact that the Opta stats are incomplete (while being a perfectly true statement) was never the critical flaw in your comparison between 2012 and 2013 - it was always an element =#FF0000[size=150you[/size introduced which skewed the results. That skew (innocently made or not) just happened to favour your conclusion but do the accurate figures?
Either add the missing game's stats into the 2012 figures or remove those additional games from the 2013 figures - so that a comparison (even one that uses an incomplete data set) can be made.
IIRC when I did this most of the six forwards results didn't support your conclusion that followed on page 4 - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394450501&start=32
Quote ="ThePrinter"An almost entire clean sweep of improvement from 2012 by the whole forwards in the two big departments'"
__________
With the benefit of hindsight perhaps I should have just posted the opening two lines of my first post on this thread and left it at that.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394451547&start=43 | |
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So how is 2013 incomplete in terms of games played?
Simple question.
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Quote ="tvoc"Either add the missing game's stats into the 2012 figures or remove those additional games from the 2013 figures - so that a comparison (even one that uses an incomplete data set) can be made.
IIRC when I did this most of the six forwards results didn't support your conclusion that followed on page 4 - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394450501&start=32 '"
That surprises me. Regardless of completeness, The Printer's averages, in most cases, differ quite widely between the years. Some player performances during those missing games must have been, to quote Mick Morgan, darbolical in 2013 and excellent in 2012 to narrow or even close those gaps. |
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Quote ="tvoc"Either add the missing game's stats into the 2012 figures or remove those additional games from the 2013 figures - so that a comparison (even one that uses an incomplete data set) can be made.
IIRC when I did this most of the six forwards results didn't support your conclusion that followed on page 4 - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394450501&start=32 '"
That surprises me. Regardless of completeness, The Printer's averages, in most cases, differ quite widely between the years. Some player performances during those missing games must have been, to quote Mick Morgan, darbolical in 2013 and excellent in 2012 to narrow or even close those gaps. | |
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"So how is 2013 incomplete in terms of games played?
Simple question.'"
Which has already been simply answered. Those Opta stats have never included all 1st grade games played in any of the seasons they list. They came closer to doing so in 2013 but they are still incomplete.
The relevant part remains that anyone producing averages in order to compare 2013 to any previous season would need to take care that the previous season/s used the equivalent data set.
ThePrinter didn't do this which is why his figures for 2012 were understated giving the false impression of 'across the board improvements' (at least according to the Opts stats) an impression that is unsupported when applying the comparable data set for 2012.
The error has been acknowledged and a corrected post has been previously promised but which is still to appear.
So which is it - can't produce an accurate comparison or won't produce one? |
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| Quote ="Clearwing"That surprises me. Regardless of completeness, The Printer's averages, in most cases, differ quite widely between the years. Some player performances during those missing games must have been, to quote Mick Morgan, darbolical in 2013 and excellent in 2012 to narrow or even close those gaps.'"
I carn't spake.
The completeness of either season's data set wasn't the crucial flaw introduced by ThePrinter that materially changed the outcome.
The inability to produce meaningfull averages for one half of the comparison is where it went pear-shaped.
As stated above his error has been acknowledged, just awaiting his previously promised corrections now. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Which has already been simply answered.'"
No it hasn't, you've waffled on for ages hoping that length of reply would hide the fact you haven't answered.
WHAT GAMES FROM 2013 ARE MISSING FOR THOSE 6 FORWARDS THAT MAKE 2013 "INCOMPLETE"????
It's like dealing with a child who isn't grown up enough to just say "2013 wasn't incomplete, I was wrong." |
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| Tvoc you've gone suspiciously quiet on the subject, you said 2013 was incomplete in terms of games, I have the following.....
Leuluai = 22 games
Bailey = 14
Delaney = 18
Clarkson = 23
Kirke = 29
JJB = 22
So please correct them and list the correct number of games as 'apparently' mine are incomplete. |
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Oh. This is still going.
Goody.
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"No it hasn't, you've waffled on for ages hoping that length of reply would hide the fact you haven't answered.
WHAT GAMES FROM 2013 ARE MISSING FOR THOSE 6 FORWARDS THAT MAKE 2013 "INCOMPLETE"????'"
The games that Opta (on that site) have never included in their statistics.
Not sure how many times I need to provide the same answer to the same question.
Quote ="ThePrinter"It's like dealing with a child who isn't grown up enough to just say "2013 wasn't incomplete, I was wrong."'"
Why would I say that when those stats don't include all 1st grade games.
__________
Still awaiting the previously promised corrections to your errant posts from page 4 of the thread:
Quote ="ThePrinter"I do look at stats in detail, here's some taking into account a massive factor of amount of games played.
LEULUAI
Games Played - 2013 (22) 2012 (29)
Metres (Average Per Game) - 1860 (84.5) 2005 (69.1)
Tackles - 416 (18.9) 449 (15.4)
BAILEY
Games Played - 2013 (14) 2012 (22)
Metres - 750 (53.6) 1034 (47)
Tackles - 352 (25.1) 425 (19.3)
DELANEY
Games Played - 2013 (1icon_cool.gif 2012 (29)
Metres - 1480 (82.2) 2201 (75.9)
Tackles - 527 (29.3) 769 (26.5)
CLARKSON
Games Played - 2013 (23) 2012 (23)
Metres - 1365 (59.3) 843 (36.7)
Tackles - 575 (25) 450 (19.6)
KIRKE
Games Played - 2013 (29) 2012 (21)
Metres - 1474 (50.9) 1033 (49.2)
Tackles - 583 (20.1) 294 (14)
JJB
Games Played - 2013 (22) 2012 (20)
Metres - 1867 (84.9) 1793 (89.6)
Tackles - 681 (30.9) 531 (26.6)
...................................
All six post a healthy increase in number of tackles made per game. 5 of the 6 made increases in metres made per game. An almost entire clean sweep of improvement from 2012 by the whole forwards in the two big departments, so maybe criticism of them going downhill in 2013 has been incorrect.'"
And
Quote ="ThePrinter"As for more metres per carry, all 6 actually slightly decreased in the department, they ended up with more metres per game by taking more carries in and increasing their workload.
Carries per game.....
JJB = 14.1 (2013) - 12.2 (2012)
LEULUAI = 11.6 - 8.9
DELANEY = 12.3 - 11.2
CLARKSON = 10.3 - 6.3
BAILEY = 9.1 - 7.5
KIRKE = 7.1 - 6.6
So that's Metres made, tackles, and carries they all improved on. Increased workload in both attack and defence.
So the thought that Peacock was the only real one to increase his workload whilst others sat back and let him isn't on the money.'"
They were your chosen statistical comparisons
- you accept you got them wrong
- you had no issue with someone pointing out that they were flawed
- you offered to post an apology and provide the corrected stats
and yet they are still to appear. |
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| So in summary, the 2013 stats aren't incomplete....
Quote ="tvoc"if I'm wrong on this matter I promise to never post on RLFsns again.'"
Clearly not it would seem. |
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Re Amor, it's worth bearing in mind that when he actually played for Leeds he invariably looked poor, at best average. Based on what I saw I, for one, had and still have, no issues with letting him go. There is no reason to think he would ever have overcome his average-ness issues whilst playing for Leeds. Perhaps he is just better suited to a smaller club.
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